SOLD- Cyberstorm PPC 68060/PPC & Cybervision PPC

[Hell Labs]

We are nearly into classic car territory at these prices

Well into classic car turf. A perfect Volvo 240 is what? £700? Mini metro, £500? Rediculous.

[koaftder]

This is like paying 15,000 USD for a 1993 Toyota tercel with 100k miles on it.

[Iggy]

Schematics and diagrams for all Phase 5 products, including the Cyberstorm PPC and the Cybervision PPC are property of DCE (www.dce.de).
This questions was asked several times to them, and the answer was that some key components to build those boards were no longer available, and that they wanted someone to pull out all the cash for the production batch before manufacturing them, and that will require a minimum of 40 units by product.
So, it is not viable.

  While I'm aware that DCE purchased the rights to these designs about ten years ago, that was not really the question. It's unlikely that DCE would allow someone else to use what they would consider their intellectual property.
That being said, does anyone know of a source for that design's schematics (or that of a similar design), so that something similar (but hopefully not infringing on DCE's property rights) could be built?

[koaftder]

Not gonna happen. The engineering work required and limited demand will blow away any semblance of profit from the endeavor. Pay attention to what the FPGA guys are working on though, they're paving the way.

[Iggy]

Not gonna happen. The engineering work required and limited demand will blow away any semblance of profit from the endeavor. Pay attention to what the FPGA guys are working on though, they're paving the way.

So several hundred dollars (if we're not into four figures already) for FPGA hardware makes more sense than a few hundred dollars for simpler hardware (that already has drivers for it)?
With WarpOS, the design of an accelerator shouldn't have to be exactly the same as the design licensed by DCE (and I think it's important to point out that they licensed the design - they don't appear to own it).
Personally, if you're going all the way to an FPGA design, why not scrap the rest (except for maybe the keyboard and mouse). The idea makes retaining your old Amiga hardware kind of pointless.

[koaftder]

So several hundred dollars (if we're not into four figures already) for FPGA hardware makes more sense than a few hundred dollars for simpler hardware (that already has drivers for it)?
With WarpOS, the design of an accelerator shouldn't have to be exactly the same as the design licensed by DCE (and I think it's important to point out that they licensed the design - they don't appear to own it).
Personally, if you're going all the way to an FPGA design, why not scrap the rest (except for maybe the keyboard and mouse). The idea makes retaining your old Amiga hardware kind of pointless.

You can try to design an accel for an old machine and sell it for a few hundred dollars, or you can get an entire machine in an FPGA on a board for a few hundred dollars. You can buy a minimig now, in a bit you can get an AGA milimig, and some time later, Natami which will blow any classic out of the water.

I love my old machines, I'm a classic guy, but it seems I'm spending more time these days with a soldering iron than playing cool games and running demos.

[Iggy]

these days with a soldering iron than playing cool games and running demos.

I can understand that. I just spent a little time a couple nights ago moving a resistor on the back of a Sapphire Radeon 9250 256MB video card (after flashing it with a modified Mac BIOS) so I could install it in a Powermac (with the hope of eventually running MorphOS on it).

And I can understand that the allure of older software is waning as software on other platforms outshines it.

But, I think you've underestimated what the cost of a higher performing system (than the minimig). I don't think the Natami's only going to be a few hundred dollars. Considering the board that they built the first prototype on costs almost a thousand, I'd be surprised if they can produce it for less than $800.

[Crom00]

I love my old machines, I'm a classic guy, but it seems I'm spending more time these days with a soldering iron than playing cool games and running demos.

I hear ya... I'm down to a functional A1200, 2 CPU cards Spare parts, an A600 and a CD32.

[Crom00]

Paying so much for all this stuff...You know for like 90% of the software an A1200 030 is just fine. I actually use and emulator on a netbook to fire up the last Amiga software  I tinker with (ImageFX).I was using the VIdeo Toaster Flyer and Lightwave on aPC so t he whole 060/ PPC.

Seemed like the day after I got the board ad whaveter small PPC software there was available  at the time the whole WarpoOS vs Phase5 nonsense started back
in the late 1990s...

I paid $750 for my A4000T it was a scala unit used on a cruise ship.
I sold my CSppc for $50 more than I paid for it in 2005. ($850)
I sold the CVPPC for $180 in 2005.

[koaftder]

I started writing a long post and thought better of it....that covers it nicely.

But......the plot thickens..............

Remember this on buying the Cyberstorm from just around here........

"Cyberstorm will be $1050 and the Cybervision $375. Together I will discount to $1399 + postage. Firm on prices. Items are sold as-is since this is old electronic goods but the video I just did speaks for itself."
and a Quote: from a not long ago...............
"No comment I plead the 5th.
Lots of $ and the wife will not be proud. "

Oh man..... Hahaha

I wasn't commenting on the price, it was in response to the fact that the guy spent top dollar to build a tricked out a4k. Surprised to see him sell some of the gear off, then again he's gone through hell and back to get where he is right now.

[koaftder]

I can understand that. I just spent a little time a couple nights ago moving a resistor on the back of a Sapphire Radeon 9250 256MB video card (after flashing it with a modified Mac BIOS) so I could install it in a Powermac (with the hope of eventually running MorphOS on it).

And I can understand that the allure of older software is waning as software on other platforms outshines it.

But, I think you've underestimated what the cost of a higher performing system (than the minimig). I don't think the Natami's only going to be a few hundred dollars. Considering the board that they built the first prototype on costs almost a thousand, I'd be surprised if they can produce it for less than $800.

It's an expensive game to play. I'm surprised that some of the kit out there is as cheap as it is given the low volume runs. 2 years ago I had a bunch of boards made and stuffed based on a design using an 8051 deritive that ended up costing 400 dollars a piece, took 6 months to develop and it wasn't anywhere near as complicated as an accel. 90% of the work I did was pure software.

[koaftder]

I hear ya... I'm down to a functional A1200, 2 CPU cards Spare parts, an A600 and a CD32.

In case you are wondering, I thoroughly ruined that a1200 mobo!

[Crom00]

In case you are wondering, I thoroughly ruined that a1200 mobo!

Crap... such a shame... too bad the IDE cable got fused to the motherboard on my end. Good for parts harvesting I suppose.

I have a good setup now. I put it all in storage as I wind up spending too much time playing games and tinkering.

[Crom00]

This whole purchase hardware, tinker with it and resell on ebay is a phenomenon I see with Toy collectors. They'll buy some hard to find toy unbox it, tinker a bit... maybe photograph it and resell it on ebay.

I tried to explain this "malody" (ha ha ) to someone in 3rd world South America and they couldn't understand it. Then we want back to dancing and enjoying life!

[Kronos]

So several hundred dollars (if we're not into four figures already) for FPGA hardware makes more sense than a few hundred dollars for simpler hardware (that already has drivers for it)?

Actually FPGA-based HW would be much much simpler than the CS/B-PPC.

2 CPUs from different familes hodgepoched together on a single RAM-bus trying to interface with a computer designed in 1991/2 .....

And that was then, today you would run into even more problems, parts that have gone out of production more than a decade ago, that don't conform to current regulations (ROHS) all to get some HW that never won a prize for relieablity in the 1st place.

Guess again which one would cost more.....

[Iggy]

It's an expensive game to play. I'm surprised that some of the kit out there is as cheap as it is given the low volume runs. 2 years ago I had a bunch of boards made and stuffed based on a design using an 8051 deritive that ended up costing 400 dollars a piece, took 6 months to develop and it wasn't anywhere near as complicated as an accel. 90% of the work I did was pure software.

Yes, I'm familiar with how expensive even simple things can get. An 8051 would be relatively simple, since you might not need to involve surface mounted components and could probably get buy with a board based on a single layer double sided copper clad (and etched) epoxy board.
I spent a few months working on a Freescale MPC8641D based motherboard, only to find that the level of complication and the number of layers required (not to mention the expense) made the prospect of financing a production run almost impossible.

Considering that there are new '60 accelerators available, its probably reasonable to state that the demand for an '060/PPC accelerator would likely be limited. If you want to use a PPC, a SAM440 or a Mac (depending on what OS you wanted to use) would be more practical.
I was just thinking of my own interests, but you're right, the idea is impractical.