What is the name of the OS?

[Fats]

This is one thing that always upsets me about AROS, MorphOS and OS4. Not a single one just calls it "Workbench X.X".

Disappointing.

In a world without trademarks we/AROS probably would have done that.
Staf.

[Hell Labs]

The fact this discussion has dragged on so long says a lot about amiga users. Makes me want to switch to risc os.

[Amiga_Nut]

You don't need IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, or COMMAND.COM, just a boot sector that loads *something.*

On a floppy disk? I think you need to have those 3 files written to get a bootable floppy using the format /s command IIRC.

Can't think of any games that circumvented this as games run in dos and therefore a dos bootdisk requires those 3 files to get going and do 'something' I  am guessing.

[Amiga_Nut]

The fact this discussion has dragged on so long says a lot about amiga users. Makes me want to switch to risc os.

It says the the Amiga 'OS' is completely unique and spread across both Kickstart and Workbench or just Kickstart depending on your definition

[tone007]

On a floppy disk? I think you need to have those 3 files written to get a bootable floppy using the format /s command IIRC.

Can't think of any games that circumvented this as games run in dos and therefore a dos bootdisk requires those 3 files to get going and do 'something' I  am guessing.

To get an MS-DOS bootdisk, yes, it needs those files.  Bootable games that ran on DOS would've had them, but there are things besides games that boot from floppy.  Some utilities are written from scratch and don't use those DOS files, and then there are Linux boot floppies which have no use for them as well.

[Karlos]

I don't consider a set of function calls an interface.  You do..

Let's just say we disagree on this point..



desiv

You absolutely cannot start an AmigaDOS shell without Intuition. You can't even enter the early startup bootscreen without Intuition. Whether you use Workbench or Shell to to interact with your Amiga, you are doing it through Intuition, which manages every aspect of the "human" interface to AmigaOS.

Intuition has always been used to refer to AmigaOS embedded windowing/gui system, so Kolla is right.

[desiv]

You absolutely cannot start an AmigaDOS shell without Intuition.

I never said otherwise???

You can't even enter the early startup bootscreen without Intuition. Whether you use Workbench or Shell to to interact with your Amiga, you are doing it through Intuition, which manages every aspect of the "human" interface to AmigaOS.

I always said that Intuition is a PART of the GUI.  And yes, it's a foundational PART of the SHELL.

Intuition has always been used to refer to AmigaOS embedded windowing/gui system, so Kolla is right.

Not by a lot of people.  In fact, until I came by this thread, I had yet to meet anyone who called the OS, "Intuition".

But as I said, you can call it what you want.  I don't believe there is a right or wrong as to what it should be called.  Apparently some people think I shouldn't call it what I call it.  Funny world..  :roflmao:

I happen to love the Intuition.  I listed it as the most important part of the Amiga in another thread.  Above custom chips and multitasking.  The Intuition is core and important and awesome.

And the OS and GUI are built with it.  IMHO (which I'm not allowed to have).

desiv

[Karlos]

Not by a lot of people.  In fact, until I came by this thread, I had yet to meet anyone who called the OS, "Intuition".

Of course not. Nobody calls the OS "Intuition". It is the windowing/gui system that is called Intuition, and people have been calling it that since it was created.

It just so happens that as a user you can't actually get to the OS without going through Intuition. This is in contrast to most unix like OS, for example, where you can log into a shell without ever starting up the X server.

[desiv]

Of course not. Nobody calls the OS "Intuition". It is the windowing/gui system that is called Intuition, and people have been calling it that since it was created.

You keep stating opinions as FACT.  That doesn't make it so tho.. :hammer:

It just so happens that as a user you can't actually get to the OS without going through Intuition. This is in contrast to most unix like OS, for example, where you can log into a shell without ever starting up the X server.

Which again, doesn't make it a GUI.  It makes it a PART of the GUI.  That's what APIs do.

It's not only Wikipedia that agrees with me, it's ARS as well:
http://raceways.free.fr/_Amiga/A%20history%20of%20the%20Amiga%20By%20Jeremy%20Reimer.html

The resulting API was called Intuition

Not that the above proves anything other than the issue that not everyone agrees with you.

In fact, it looks like it's just you and Kolla so far...
Which is surprising considering

Intuition has always been used to refer to AmigaOS embedded windowing/gui system

...

I'm just saying...

desiv

[Karlos]

Seriously, the AmigaOS GUI is called Intuition and it always has been called Intuition since 1.0. Whatever else people call the GUI is pretty much irrelevant. I've heard people calling Reaction the GUI, Workbench the GUI and so on. That doesn't make them correct. Reaction is a widgetset derived from BOOPSI and is thus a component of Intuition and workbench is a desktop environment and is thus an application written for Intuition. Intuition is still the GUI.

That, sir, is not an opinion, it is a fact. You can check it out in the RKM under User Interface libraries if you are in any doubt. They will tell you that the AmigaOS GUI is provided by Intuition, the API for which is documented therein.

[desiv]

Seriously, the AmigaOS GUI is called Intuition and it always has been called Intuition since 1.0.

Seriously, it's not.
The GUI is Workbench, which is built USING the Intuition API.

That, sir, is not an opinion, it is a fact. You can check it out in the RKM under User Interface libraries if you are in any doubt.

Oh great, can you quote where in the RKM is says the GUI is called Intuition?
In fact, if it's in the section about libraries, that kind of leads to my point, that it is a foundation, and not the GUI, which is Workbench.

Seriously..

desiv

p.s  From the RKM:

Chapters 2-16, User Interface Libraries. An in-depth tutorial
      on how to create a graphic user interface for Amiga application
      software using Intuition

Thanx for mentioning the RKM.  It's awesome!  More from that tome:

Intuition is the collective name for the function libraries, data
structures and other elements needed to create a graphical interface for
Amiga applications.

AND MORE!  I LOVE THE RKM!!

Workbench is the graphic user interface to the Amiga file system that uses
symbols called icons to represent disks, directories and files.

[Karlos]

Whatever else you may say, Workbench is most assuredly not the GUI. If it were, you would not be able to run GUI applications without it. It is, as the RKM describe, a GUI front end to the file system.

[desiv]

Whatever else you may say, Workbench is most assuredly not the GUI. If it were, you would not be able to run GUI applications without it.

Well, according to the RKM, it is the GUI...  (quote above)

So, again, we can just agree to disagree...

Have a good one...

desiv

[amigadave]

The fact this discussion has dragged on so long says a lot about amiga users. Makes me want to switch to risc os.

Users of many other OSes can and do drag stupid discussions on just as long as Amiga users in many different places and ways.  Amiga users are just famous for being stubborn and having more patience than most other groups because we have been forced to wait for things much more often than other computer user groups.  Not that this topic is really stupid, but does it really matter what anyone calls or names the AmigaOS as long as everyone involved in the discussion understands what is being talked about is the OS that runs Amiga applications on an Amiga computer, or emulator.

Having stated that, I also get frustrated by some of the discussions here and by the stubborn nature of some people that express themselves over the Internet.  What angers me most often is when people express their opinions as FACTS and then almost as often they follow their statement with "IIRC", or some statement that they are just repeating something that they read or heard from someone else that may or may not be knowledgeable about the topic that is being debated.  In other words, they are not sure about their "facts" or assertions, but they are perfectly ready to disagree with someone that may have better knowledge, or experience with and/or access to the "real facts", based on their possibly faulty memory, or hearsay from another questionable source.  Personally I think that the group of members we have here at A.org are better than most other Amiga related sites, but I have noticed that either my patience for other peoples opinions which I think are stupid at the time has decreased, or the frequency of truly stupid or irrelevant remarks has increased over the last couple of years.  I am guessing that it is a little of both.

I like to think that, having come to the above realization, I have chosen to express my own opinions less often without better research or facts to backup my claims, or reasons, than I might have done in the past, but I am sure that I can and have still gotten sucked into a few discussions that I should have stayed out of.

With all the other things going on in this World right now, aren't there many other more important things we all could better concentrate our thoughts and energy on besides arguing about the proper name for a 25 year-old OS?

[Karlos]

Well, according to the RKM, it is the GUI...  (quote above)

So, again, we can just agree to disagree...

Have a good one...

desiv

No, according to RKM, Workbench is a GUI front end to the file system.

The problem here seems to be in the what we mean by "the GUI". I don't disagree that Workbench is a GUI, but when you qualify "the GUI", you are referring directly to the system upon which all GUIs, Workbench included, are built. And that component is Intuition, not Workbench.

You don't open workbench.library when writing apps that use a graphical user interface except in the case that you need some particular workbench integration. You use intuition.library for all your GUI building.

[desiv]

... but when you qualify "the GUI", you are referring directly to the system upon which all GUIs, Workbench included, is built. And that component is Intuition.

That's not what "I" am referring to when I refer to "the GUI."  That, as I read it, is an API, a "component" as you put it.

When I refer to "the GUI," I mean the interface which is primarily used to launch applications.  Yes, you can launch apps from the SHELL.  But the "primary interface" (IMHO) for for launching apps is Workbench, which I consider "the GUI" which is built on top of Intuition.

I hadn't ever heard someone say "I'm going to launch JRComm from Intuition" before.
So, that's my definition.

So, we're not disagreeing about Workbench or Intuition or even GUI.
We are disagreeing about the use of the word "the?"

Hmmm...  :roflmao:

TTYL

desiv