Will there every be another computer like the amiga?

[dreamcast270mhz]

Maybe all this arguing about which tiny facet of the Amiga was more Amiga than any other part is a slight waste of time...

Perhaps we should see the world around us and realise that we live in a "post Amiga" world, everything that made the Amiga special is now a stardard par of the computing environment.

What we need to do is take our (as in the Amiga comunity) collective understanding of the interelationship between the features and mould the machines we use in our image... Download the SDKs and get coding, then mate we can restore what was once Amiga... Just a thought...

Well when MOS 2.5 is released, maybe I'll learn some PPC asm and some C to help with the closest AmigaOS rebirth. Well put Bloodline, well put.

[paolone]

1. Don't try to speak english if you know you can't comprehend a native speaker's terms, Hell Labs is right in saying that some of my reasons have nothing to do with disc copying, remember my post is much more broad than that.

2. And don't tell me I could've used windows better or managed it better, its an inferior design stolen from IBM OS/2 and implemented just as poorly, tell me when Bill Gates stops adding useless APIs and system locks and a fancy GUI update that makes it look new. If MS actually cared about its customers, they'd release XP for free and prior 9x releases instead of forcing you to upgrade. The Powermac G3, for example was made in 1999 and was supported until 2007 Leopard, the average 2005 PC can't run 7 without extensive stripping down of it (MS unsupported)

1. Hell lab doesn't even deserve an answer anymore, due to his poor argumenting, please don't go down deep to his level. I perfectly understood what you originally said and I rightly answered to YOU, to both the "protection of Windows itself" and "inability to use open source codecs" sentences. Then he entered the discussion and didn't add anything intersting, just tried to reverse words as he wished, like kids do on forums. But I have already answered to him once, and it's enough. I just have to apologize since I had not been enough clear about MacOS attitudes not to expose itself, but I don't understand his claiming that this discussion is on computers only, so iPhones should be off-topic. In my answer to you I've clearly said "MacOS and more in general Apple users", but maybe my poor english is not enough clear for him. Sorry for that. I will go away.

Or maybe not. Maybe I have better just ignoring his rants.

2. The fact that Windows NT has much in common with OS/2 and in your opinion represents a bad implementation of the original idea doesn't have anything in common with the poor knowledge YOU demonstrate about Windows itself. You are totally free to think Windows is a bad operating system, and you're also free to keep private your wrong ideas about it, unless you throw them into a public discussion where people can easily disagree and, best of all, clearly demonstrate that you just don't know what you're talking about.

And, in particular, don't tell me about G3s running MacOS X opposed to 2005 PCs that can't run windows 7, since I perfectly know how MacOS X runs on a G3: I REMOVED it for desperation from my G3/500 iBook since it was painfully slow, and downgraded it to MacOS classic 9.1. Yes, you can run MacOS X prior to Leopard even on ol G3 machines, but you have to expand them or just wait for ages that any silly operation will be performed. The same thing you have to do to a 2005 PC to run Windows 7 (I have a bad news for you: it works). Anyway, you don't buy Leopard or Windows 7 to run them on old hardware.

[persia]

Yep, I meant 90 KB!  Hard to believe it when I think about it, but it was true you could run a CP/M machine from a single sided 5.25 inch floppy, it was quite a luxury when I obtained a second drive....

I assume that was a typo?  90MB?  :roflmao:
Yes, I used CP/M before the Amiga too (if you really did)..



I didn't say that was all I did, just that I used C.  Jump to conclusions much???

Well, I don't feed trolls, so .... have fun..

desiv

[smerf]

Hi,

@tone007

You have to excuse dreamcast270mhz he resides in virginia and is nothing but a dumb redneck probably with an education lower than a 5th grader and deserves a Mac.

Lets be honest, Macs are for the people that really can't understand computers. Like Jobs said "Keep our users confined so that they can't mess anything up" don't let them get into the inner workings or the hardware of the computer, they just aren't smart enough for that.

So in his case the Mac is a perfect machine for him to use, and just maybe one day he will grow up and use a real machine instead of a toy.

smerf

[smerf]

Hi,

@persia,

MaximumPC just wrote an article on one of the new Bell Labs CPU's, they found out that the material used on our stealth bombers can also be used to make electrical chips that can possibly reach speeds of a terrahertz with no heat sink. Bell Labs thinks that with a little developement that maybe in 2 years we may be talking about gighertz chips like the old megahertz chips, hopefully I will still be alive to see this.

Then again, I have heard other amazing things in the past, on memory, on hard drives, on paper storage etc. and never seen anything of this junk. I remember when IBM was experimenting on a paper storage medium. You saved your files to the printer, the printer printed out your program sort of in a different shade bar. Then you used a scanner like device to load it back into your computer. Vanishware.

So this could be another one of those vanishware claims. ;-D

smerf

As for being delusional, NOT.

Crazy and insane, I will buy that

Totally a nut case, you got it

[smerf]

Hi,

@dreamcast270mhz,

How can you say that Microsoft stole OS/2, IBm hired Microsoft to create it, Bill Gates had a dispute with IBM on this matter and backed out of the contract and dropped IBM stating that IBM would be nothing without him and they weren't. They started failing miserably until Red Hat helped bail them out. As for Microsoft stealing OS/2 I don't think so because Gates saw that OS/2 was an inferior design and tried to convince IBM to support his new OS Windows. IBM said noway, Gates dropped IBM like a hot potato, and IBM went silent at least in the destop market.

Why should Microsoft release XP, did Amiga release AmigaOS?, did CPM release CPM? Did Atari release whatever they used? Did Apple release OSX? Did the chicken cross the road?

smerf

[koaftder]

Microsoft has had a nasty little habit of entering into agreements with companies to develop various things just to pull out and release something ahead of schedule leaving the other guy with his pants down. They did it to IBM, they did it to SGI.

For the record, OS/2 was fucking awful, there is a damn good reason it failed in the market place.

[Amiga_Nut]

Second about C.S.

And THAT is the question...

To be honest, I don't know...
I've had (and have) lots of computers.  Some I really like.  Some the perform incredibly (much better than my Amigas).  Some that were cutting edge.  Some that are.. er. .just bizarre...  I like almost all tech..

But the Amiga was about tech AND much more.
It was that feeling that we were part of something that was ahead of its time.  Not a few months or years even..

It was the elegance of the design...

When someone (on this or another board) asked about the best part of the Amiga, I answered "intuition", because I was able to write fully Windowed programs in C and actually understand what it was doing and why.

I can do that in other languages, but parts I understand and parts I don't.

I would describe the Amiga - hardware, software, interface, et al as elegant...  

I don't see that anymore...

I see bloated, incredibly badly designed devices that are only "incredible" because they have so much memory and CPU that it forces it's way past.

If you're a network person, you can kind of compare it to the Ethernet/Token Ring comparison.  Ethernet won.  It was so fast and cheap, it was inevitable..

But you look at what you have to do to get it where it is, switching to the port, and you still have collisions on the switch backplanes...

Then you look at Token-Ring..  Packets on the wire...  Upstream and Downsteam neighbors...  It was an elegant protocol...

Now, it's not the same extreme.  I don't run Token Ring at home still, and I do still use my Amigas. :-)

But I think that the combination of the incredible technology and the elegance of the design is what the Amiga is about to me...

Other machines have some great designs..  But I don't see what I see in the Amiga.  And now, there is so much power and RAM, there is no reason to be elegant...  It's just sad...  IMHO..

I don't see how there will ever be another computer like the Amiga..

But maybe..

desiv

Like I already said, a modern day Amiga would have to..........

Be as powerful or more powerful than anything the competition was selling (previously via the use of the non-standard 680000 instead of PC Intel rubbish AND custom chips to delivery amazing multimedia facilities of PCM 4 channel sound, up to 4096 colours on static screens @ half broadcast quality and lightning fast graphic data transfer and multiple effects on screen via blitter and copper custom hardware in the A1000 in 85/86). So they must produce a machine that can run CPU intensive tasks faster than a PC costing 300% more AND play technically better games than any console that is for sale at any price today.

Supply a cutting edge responsive OS with features not present on current desktop machines (which in the Amiga's case in 1985 was fully integrated and standardised mutlimedia functions and multi-tasking. Something neither the ST the Mac or the PC had in any way shape or form...and yet now we wonder how it was possible to have such a pathetic OS as pre-Amiga A1000)

So in essence a new Amiga would cost the same as a PS3, provide the best OS for today's requirements (security, bandwidth control, crash prevention,an element of artificial intelligence so it would automate mundane tasks after noticing a pattern of recognition etc etc) and at the same time be more powerful than a Quad Core Extreme/i7 and yet play games superior in quality (technically speaking) to either a £1000 PC or a PS3/Xbox360.

And like I said, a single machine solution to do this isn't going to happen, Amiga has become a distant dream now...we were lucky to have enjoyed it when it was king of the computer world in the mid 80s.

Love your Mac or Wintel as much as you want but neither Apple or MS have done crap all worth mentioning in the last two decades compared to what Commodore did in the 3 years from C64 to Amiga 1000 launches. Sorry those ARE the facts, if you don't like them then take your bias to MS/Apple dedicated forums. Show me a tight responsive OS today that doesn't require more processing power than necessary just to move a pointer on the screen and launch some programs...and I will show you OS4 Multi-tasking GUI based multimedia rich OS running on amazingly future proofed hardware that lasted over half a decade safely is a testament to the A1000 and just how advance and revolutionary a product it was.

(and yes I know the Amiga's greatest advantage was ultimately its downfall, the fact it was a closed specification platform with only one manufacturer....it gave all the advantages of a console for programming but was in a revolutionary computer with an elegant and efficient OS...but Commodore left it too late with AGA and it was too little with the same 8bit sound in 1993!!)

[Hell Labs]

1. Hell lab doesn't even deserve an answer anymore, due to his poor argumenting, please don't go down deep to his level. I perfectly understood what you originally said and I rightly answered to YOU, to both the "protection of Windows itself" and "inability to use open source codecs" sentences. Then he entered the discussion and didn't add anything intersting, just tried to reverse words as he wished, like kids do on forums. But I have already answered to him once, and it's enough. I just have to apologize since I had not been enough clear about MacOS attitudes not to expose itself, but I don't understand his claiming that this discussion is on computers only, so iPhones should be off-topic. In my answer to you I've clearly said "MacOS and more in general Apple users", but maybe my poor english is not enough clear for him. Sorry for that. I will go away.

I'm not sure if you actually speak english, or if you're using google translate. At any rate, you don't really understand what other people are saying.

And, in particular, don't tell me about G3s running MacOS X opposed to 2005 PCs that can't run windows 7, since I perfectly know how MacOS X runs on a G3: I REMOVED it for desperation from my G3/500 iBook since it was painfully slow, and downgraded it to MacOS classic 9.1. Yes, you can run MacOS X prior to Leopard even on ol G3 machines, but you have to expand them or just wait for ages that any silly operation will be performed. The same thing you have to do to a 2005 PC to run Windows 7 (I have a bad news for you: it works). Anyway, you don't buy Leopard or Windows 7 to run them on old hardware.

10.3 runs fine for me. G3/400, 512mb.

[koaftder]

stop being a dick, please

[desiv]

Sorry those ARE the facts, if you don't like them then take your bias to MS/Apple dedicated forums.

er..  Not quite sure who you were replying to, but it wasn't me...

:confused:

desiv

[Karlos]

10.3 runs fine for me. G3/400, 512mb.

As with all things, mileage varies. I had to work with 10.2/10.3 and Server 10.3 on old PPC macs in a previous job and it was a total pain. Unresponsive, crash prone and to add insult to injury, the server edition totally screwed up it's own filesystem one morning and couldn't be recovered. The disk itself was fine. Were it not for a regular backup, we'd have been up the creek without a paddle.

[Hell Labs]

As with all things, mileage varies. I had to work with 10.2/10.3 and Server 10.3 on old PPC macs in a previous job and it was a total pain. Unresponsive, crash prone and to add insult to injury, the server edition totally screwed up it's own filesystem one morning and couldn't be recovered. The disk itself was fine. Were it not for a regular backup, we'd have been up the creek without a paddle.

Well, something was broke then. Xserve, or powermac? I've never really heard of problems like that.

stop being a dick, please

I value honesty over manners.

[Karlos]

It was a PowerMac G4 running OSX server 10.3. The hardware itself was fine, it was the OS that went south.

[koaftder]

I value honesty over manners.

As do I, but you haven't been honest. You're cherry picking stuff and slamming folks for no reason. Take some of that mess down a notch.

[paolone]

I'm not sure if you actually speak english, or if you're using google translate. At any rate, you don't really understand what other people are saying.

Sorry, mr Wilde.

10.3 runs fine for me. G3/400, 512mb.

It's a pity old G3 iBooks came with 128 megs only. And no, I'm not either look in junkyards for old RAM modules, nor I'll buy them new, since 1) their value is less than their price, 2) I don't need to revamp my old iBook just to run OSX on it, 3) looking what you say and how you say it, "runs fine for me" is something I frankly doubt about. Cheers