Common amiga knowledge that's wrong

[stefcep2]

It's still there, you just choose to ignore it.

Long before you "gave up", there were innovations in gameplay in first person shooters.  Ultima Underworld (which predates DOOM) and Ultima Underworld 2 were both fantastic RPGs which melded the RPG and FPS genre.  System Shock took it to an even higher level, both graphically and gameplay wise.  Yes, there was a drought between Quake and Quake 2, but then came Half Life with its rich story-telling.  Deus Ex, the Elder Scrolls games from Bethsoft, again, upping the RPG ante, and in '04, Half Life 2 with its incredible physics engine (not to mention the even deeper story).  And if you missed Portal (and the upcoming Portal 2) you probably missed the game of the decade.

There's plenty of fun and innovation to be found in first person games.  Not all of them are made by iD, and not all of them involve running from one room to another picking up ammo boxes.  Although done right that's plenty of fun as well.

RPG's.  meh.  I'll fantasize I'm an elf/soldier/warrior/armed forces commander.  For days.  Weeks.  Months.  Sorry, lifes too short.  Quick fix games are my cip of tea.  Give me PES anyday.

[Hell Labs]

:confused:

Think you phrased that a bit off....

Just because they aren't the same doesn't mean that he couldn't have thought they were..

Opinions aren't wrong.  They are opinions.

They can be based on misconceptions, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

Also, he said they were similar.
Let's see..
Half Life..  First person.. Walking around shooting..
Unreal..    First person..  Walking around shooting..

Actually, I think I agree with his (wrong) opinion.

I'm just saying..  :-)

desiv

What? Yes an opinion can be wrong. An opinion is something the owner of the opinion thinks is a fact. If it is not actually a fact, it is wrong.

[stefcep2]

What? Yes an opinion can be wrong. An opinion is something the owner of the opinion thinks is a fact. If it is not actually a fact, it is wrong.

no, an opinion is an opinion, a fact is a fact, an opinion is not a fact. IMO.

[shoggoth]

Common knowledge: The amiga wasn't powerful enough as a gaming machine anymore

Why it's wrong: Sure, the 68000 with 1 meg of RAM wasn't cutting it in 94 anymore. But then, we had 68060 processor cards, RTG video cards, loads of RAM etc available.
It's a travesty that virtual no games ever took advantage of this equipment but that's a shortfall of the developers, not the machine itself.

Wrong. You're talking about an Amiga that existed in *theory*. In practice, they were horribly expensive, and you could get a higher spec PC for less cash than a high spec Amiga.

Common knowledge: Doom killed the amiga

Why it's wrong: Doom was released in December of 93. Commodore declared bankruptcy in April 94. There's plain not enough time for an entire platform to go from doing well to dying off, based on one game in about 4 months. (Doom was massively important in fuelling the PC as a valid games platform, but that's an entirely different story)

Wrong. Doom in itself didn't kill the Amiga, but the technology it used did. Playfields, copper and sprites was hot 1985, but 100% useless when texture mapped 3D games became mainstream.

[persia]

Common Knowledge: Amiga had pre-emptive multitasking before Microsoft.

False!

Yes, MS Windows didn't have pre-emptive multitasking until 1994, but that isn't the statement.  In 1979 Microsoft obtained a license for ATT Unix System 7 in 1979 and sold it as Microsoft Xenix.  One of the first computers I used in studying for my BSc was a PDP-11 running Microsoft Xenix.  Tandy sold Microsoft Xenix based computers as TRS-Xenix a full two years before Amiga.

A side note here, anyone who owned a Sinclair QL (I did) realises that QDOS had pre-emptive multitasking a full year before Amiga, QDOS of course has nothing to do with Microsoft but I thought I'd show some of my geek credentials here

[Hell Labs]

^Sinclair! It burns usss... I don't know about the QL but the spectrums were bad at everything.

no, an opinion is an opinion, a fact is a fact, an opinion is not a fact. IMO.

You misunderstand me, or are else you are just trying to annoy me. It's simple:

If you have an opinion, you believe it to be the truth. I.E, factual. If it is not the truth, it is not factual, and is in fact wrong. No exceptions.

Just because it's in a persons head, doesn't mean it's exempt from criticism.

[Belial6]

^Sinclair! It burns usss... I don't know about the QL but the spectrums were bad at everything.



You misunderstand me, or are else you are just trying to annoy me. It's simple:

If you have an opinion, you believe it to be the truth. I.E, factual. If it is not the truth, it is not factual, and is in fact wrong. No exceptions.

Just because it's in a persons head, doesn't mean it's exempt from criticism.

Ok, this is a pet peeve of mine.  If you have an opinion that you believe to be fact, the opinion isn't wrong.  The fact that you believe it is a fact is wrong.  If you believe a fact that is wrong, then your fact is wrong.

Opinions are never wrong.  Only facts facts can be wrong.

[desiv]

You misunderstand me, or are else you are just trying to annoy me. It's simple:

No, we understand you.  We just disagree with you. :lol:

desiv

[runequester]

Wrong. You're talking about an Amiga that existed in *theory*. In practice, they were horribly expensive, and you could get a higher spec PC for less cash than a high spec Amiga.

As mentioned upthread, there were plenty of other expansion possibilities that were cheaper, and given that almost everyone I know expanded their 1200's, there was obviously a market for this, that game developers could have aimed at.

Wrong. Doom in itself didn't kill the Amiga, but the technology it used did. Playfields, copper and sprites was hot 1985, but 100% useless when texture mapped 3D games became mainstream.

You really believe this was a bigger factor than the fact that there were no new amiga's to buy all of a sudden due to commodore not being around?

This is going back to the same notion that the only amiga that ever existed was a base, unexpanded machine. Had commodore been around past 94, they'd have updated the graphics, as they were in the process of, just like everyone else did.
Nobody considers nintendo a failure because the NES couldn't run Doom.
Nobody considers the PC a failure because a 286 couldn't run Doom.
But everybody considers the Amiga to have failed because the A500 couldn't run Doom.

[runequester]

btw, and Im not trying to be sarcastic here...

everyone posting is aware that Doom, Hexen and Quake were all ported to the amiga, once the source code was released, right?

[stefcep2]

Ok, this is a pet peeve of mine.  If you have an opinion that you believe to be fact, the opinion isn't wrong.  The fact that you believe it is a fact is wrong.  If you believe a fact that is wrong, then your fact is wrong.

Opinions are never wrong.  Only facts facts can be wrong.

Exactly.  Opinions are a point of view expressed on the basis of real or perceived fact, and the individually different weighting of one fact over another.

[stefcep2]

btw, and Im not trying to be sarcastic here...

everyone posting is aware that Doom, Hexen and Quake were all ported to the amiga, once the source code was released, right?

yep but......too little too late.

[ElPolloDiabl]

All the old Commodore 64 and A500 users either went for a console or a PC, that was the games market gone. The one's who stayed were interested in the productivity side of the Amiga. We then had the handful of games the PC users were previously accustomed too.
I'm thinking that most people buying computers were in their teens or twenties and games would have been the deciding factor.
I was really impressed by the CD32, too bad they didn't put more effort into it.

[recidivist]

The popular Amiga 500 lacked easy internal expandabilty.
It  was great when it first came out but couldn't be improved as easily as the nice big roomy boxy IBM-compatible.
And Commodore rather foolishly squeezed the 3000 and 4000 into a non-standard sized case necessitating more board development costs in a small market.
 Commodore also itself tried to grab the IBM-compatible market,trying to have its feet in both camps.
 Commodore might have been better to have devoted all its energies to one OR the other and we'd still be buying new Commodores.

[warpdesign]

Common knowledge: You had to swap disks constantly

Why it's wrong: Yeah, psygnosis had a unreasoning fear of the external disk drive, but most games supported multiple drives (could DOS even do this without installing to a hard drive?) and virtually every large game had a hard drive installer. WHDload of course changed that game as well

The fact that some (and only some) games supported multiple drives doesn't change the fact that you had to swap disks (since games came in 3+ disks), that it was slow, noisy, and unreliable when compared to HD.

WHDLoad didn't change anything since again it came way too late.

Common knowledge: A1200 should have come with a hard drive, and CBM should have made publishers use it...

And it's true.

But it was probably already too late by that time anyway.

You love the Amiga, fine. You're nostalgic, fine. But not admitting all these flaws: what's the point ?

[warpdesign]

Besides, most Amiga users were putting a trackloader game in DF0: and booting up, not playing with the OS

So true... Only when the lack of new disk games started people decided to play with the OS.