Amiga 3000, Deneb and the different Busters

[platon42]

Oooo, released today.

I see from the README that the RTL8150 Ethernet adapter class was commissioned? Are we going to see one of the Amiga shops selling USB ethernet adapters?

I doubt it. I was merely bribed with gifts :-)

[save2600]

Thanks Alex, Chris and Matt - but PIO or DMA does not want to work in my A3000. I've double checked all my mobo jumpers and everything seems to be in order. I tried all the good suggestions from Matt to no avail. System locks up every time I go to double click on either a HD partition OR the thumbdrive. Only way it seems to work is in ZII mode.

Really does seem as if there is a "conflict" of some kind between SCSI and the ZIII modes.

I'm running out of ideas here, 'cept for maybe that MMU.library program - which I'm looking at right now.

[Matt_H]

Damn! It seems like you're so close...

You say the system locks when you double click a partition. Can you get access to a Shell (from the Execute Command menu option)? Maybe if you can get SnoopDos or Sashimi running you can figure out more of what's happening...

[save2600]

SnoopDOS reveals that it seems to hang at the L:Fat95 stage, so I installed the latest handler from Chris's V4.4 of Poseidon. Same result. System crashes and the thumbdrive blinks rapidly.

-update-

Okay, after installing the MMULibs goodies, it appears PIO mode now works! I had to change the startup delay to 2000ms though. System still crashes however when Deneb is used in DMA mode. Almost there!

[strim]

Okay, after installing the MMULibs goodies, it appears PIO mode now works! I had to change the startup delay to 2000ms though. System still crashes however when Deneb is used in DMA mode. Almost there!

Hi! Any update on this? I've got the same issue here. PIO mode was also "fixed" for me by running MuForce prior to loading Workbench.

Do you know what causes this problem?

[mboehmer_e3b]

Are you guys saying that you can remove the Zorro II jumper IF you use PIO Mode? Is PIO mode faster than forcing Zorro II mode?

Yes. Zorro III PIO is ways faster than Zorro II.

Frankly said: if Zorro III PIO is not working in your setup, then either your hardware is faulty, or you have some software problems.

Regarding Buster11 and DMA - there are indications that a bug is inside Buster11, making the DMA arbiter to hang if one Zorro III DMA card is in operation and there's heavy busload on Zorro III.

We have a beta firmware ready which cures this problem, which is - to stress this - not a bug inside DENEB, but Buster 11. Apparently up to now nobody ever stressed Zorro III DMA on Buster 11 in the way DENEB does.

Michael

[TheGoose]

Yes. Zorro III PIO is ways faster than Zorro II.

Frankly said: if Zorro III PIO is not working in your setup, then either your hardware is faulty, or you have some software problems.

Regarding Buster11 and DMA - there are indications that a bug is inside Buster11, making the DMA arbiter to hang if one Zorro III DMA card is in operation and there's heavy busload on Zorro III.

We have a beta firmware ready which cures this problem, which is - to stress this - not a bug inside DENEB, but Buster 11. Apparently up to now nobody ever stressed Zorro III DMA on Buster 11 in the way DENEB does.

Michael

Wow, maybe I'll fire up the 3KD now and try these improvements. Thanks Save2600 for continuing this topic again! Thanks E3B for listening, support! now where'd I put that buster 11...

[mboehmer_e3b]

Wow, maybe I'll fire up the 3KD now and try these improvements. Thanks Save2600 for continuing this topic again! Thanks E3B for listening, support! now where'd I put that buster 11...

Well, the main point was from Save2600 for the MuForce thingy - which cured the problem.

Michael

[save2600]

We have a beta firmware ready which cures this problem, which is - to stress this - not a bug inside DENEB, but Buster 11. Apparently up to now nobody ever stressed Zorro III DMA on Buster 11 in the way DENEB does.

Michael

Thanks for taking the time to write Michael. Kind of surprising more people haven't noticed the ZIII/Buster 11 DMA issue with Deneb.

Regarding this firmware update... you're talking about within the Deneb card right? So there's now or soon to be a workaround for our "defective" Buster 11's in using Deneb in DMA mode? Nice we have the option of flashing firmware than waiting forever for a new Buster chip  

Love to give that a try when it's ready...

[mboehmer_e3b]

Thanks for taking the time to write Michael. Kind of surprising more people haven't noticed the ZIII/Buster 11 DMA issue with Deneb.

There were rumours that some bug survived the Rev11 design. But now I can finally prove that Buster Rev11 indeed has some troubles under certain circumstances with only one busmaster, which was considered stable up to now.
But as DENEB has a nice huge FPGA with lots of resources unused, we can take some countermeasurements.

This bug was found during development of ZorRAM SDRAM card for Zorro III, were for the first time the bus was really loaded and heavy DMA operation going on... in the beginning I believed in some SDRAM bug, but could track it down to Buster finally.

Regarding this firmware update... you're talking about within the Deneb card right? So there's now or soon to be a workaround for our "defective" Buster 11's in using Deneb in DMA mode? Nice we have the option of flashing firmware than waiting forever for a new Buster chip  

Yes, DENEB can do some workaround and take over some of Buster's work.
This will only work with one busmaster active (the DENEB), but I also think about a real fix on DENEB for enabling several busmasters on Buster 11 independently of their origin (like A4000T SCSI). This fix will need some hardware modification on DENEB, a CPLD upgrade and will most likely not be for free.

And yes, I particularily like firmware upgrades by simply running a flash program - this concept has proven to be the correct way to go :-)

Michael

[mboehmer_e3b]

Hi! Any update on this? I've got the same issue here. PIO mode was also "fixed" for me by running MuForce prior to loading Workbench.

For the software guys here it would be nice to do as following:

run <> nil: c:muforce showpc datestamp stackcheck stacklines=2 rawio
run > nil: sashimi <>"CON:0/20/640/120/Sashimi/AUTO/CLOSE/WAIT/INACTIVE" ON NOPROMPT

(thx to Tobias Seiler for this hint :-)

You will get the MuForce output then in a sashimi window instead of SER:
Maybe this will give us some hint on what's going wrong.

Michael

[Matt_H]

There were rumours that some bug survived the Rev11 design. But now I can finally prove that Buster Rev11 indeed has some troubles under certain circumstances with only one busmaster, which was considered stable up to now.
But as DENEB has a nice huge FPGA with lots of resources unused, we can take some countermeasurements.

This bug was found during development of ZorRAM SDRAM card for Zorro III, were for the first time the bus was really loaded and heavy DMA operation going on... in the beginning I believed in some SDRAM bug, but could track it down to Buster finally.



Yes, DENEB can do some workaround and take over some of Buster's work.
This will only work with one busmaster active (the DENEB), but I also think about a real fix on DENEB for enabling several busmasters on Buster 11 independently of their origin (like A4000T SCSI). This fix will need some hardware modification on DENEB, a CPLD upgrade and will most likely not be for free.

And yes, I particularily like firmware upgrades by simply running a flash program - this concept has proven to be the correct way to go :-)

Michael

Hang on, is the ZorRAM board affected by the same only-one-busmaster bug that's preventing me from using Deneb DMA on my SCSI'ed 4000T?

Still interested in such an upgrade for Deneb, though.

[save2600]

Hang on, is the ZorRAM board affected by the same only-one-busmaster bug that's preventing me from using Deneb DMA on my SCSI'ed 4000T?

Shoot. If that's the case, might just as well put off the purchase of the ZorRAM until a definite workaround and mod are offered to "fix" our Deneb's.

Or would ZorRAM be fine with Deneb under PIO mode? At least that way, modding the Deneb would be more of an option for some of us than a forced and necessary upgrade.

[strim]

You will get the MuForce output then in a sashimi window instead of SER:
Maybe this will give us some hint on what's going wrong.

I never managed to get any MuForce output. However I did get something after loading MuGuardianAngel, when trying to load Trident:

Task 07ffc790: Nearly out of stack. SP:07ffca6c LO:07ffc874 HI:07ffcd24.
PC  : 00fc2778  USP: 07ffca70 (F)( )  Name: RAM
Data: 00000028 00000000 ffffffff 00000000 40000000 80000000 00000000 00000028
Addr: 07ffc4bc 07fffd94 00000000 07fffd94 07ffc1d8 07ffcac0 SysBase  --------

Machine freezed after printing this. How can RAM be out of stack? :shocked:
Or maybe this is normal?

[mboehmer_e3b]

Shoot. If that's the case, might just as well put off the purchase of the ZorRAM until a definite workaround and mod are offered to "fix" our Deneb's.

Only DMA operation is affected, PIO mode does not have any problems.
The bug occurs when there's a lot of PIO activity (which is the case of lot of system RAM is on Zorro) and one DMA card is in operation. Buster locks up in that cases from time to time, but DENEB can sense this and force Buster back to business then.
This needs *no* modding on DENEB.

DENEB modding is only needed if you want to operate more than one busmaster with Buster 11 (which is not possible at the moment at all). And this option is under evaluation only at the moment, if it works - ask me some weeks later.

As I said before: Zorro III PIO mode is always possible as fallback. If it fails, something else is wrong (in the case here, some workbench software issue).

Or would ZorRAM be fine with Deneb under PIO mode? At least that way, modding the Deneb would be more of an option for some of us than a forced and necessary upgrade.

It is fine, so there's no reason to avoid ZorRAM :-)
As mentioned, only DMA operation is affected, no matter which card it is (A4091, Fastlane Z3, DENEB,...). But DENEB can operate with PIO, so you're fine.

Michael

[Matt_H]

It is fine, so there's no reason to avoid ZorRAM :-)
As mentioned, only DMA operation is affected, no matter which card it is (A4091, Fastlane Z3, DENEB,...). But DENEB can operate with PIO, so you're fine.

So Deneb Z3 PIO + ZorRAM + A4000T SCSI = okay?