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Author Topic: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide  (Read 7911 times)

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Offline Kaminari

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2004, 03:56:51 AM »
A manual without a product. Now *that* is original! :-D

Apart from the horrible firmware update procedure, the OS looks definitely exciting. And this default skin is more and more appealing to the eye.
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Offline redfox

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2004, 04:28:45 AM »
:ranting:  :griping:  

Now I can see why so many people who were interested in AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 left amiga.org to go to the "other place".

I'm sick and tired of you guys pissing all over the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4.

This thread is about an installation manual for the "Amiga OS4 developer pre-release CD for the AmigaOne".

No one is claiming that AmigaOS4 is finished yet ...

Let's at least give them a chance to enjoy some good news for once.

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redfox
 

Offline Argo

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2004, 04:50:06 AM »
It's better than the updater built in to the BIOS of ASUS boards.
 

Offline Lando

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2004, 04:50:41 AM »
On my PC (an MSI Micro-ATX P4 mainboard) I recently updated my BIOS - The software that came with the motherboard automatically detected that a new version of the BIOS was available, downloaded it, and I just had to click the "flash" button and reboot, all within Windows - no boot disks, no command line.  I think most newer PC BIOS's have a similar feature, or will have soon.
 

Offline Argo

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2004, 04:54:15 AM »
I assume this means that the Developer's Public Beta CD will be out really soon now.
 

Offline Argo

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2004, 05:46:18 AM »
That would have been so cool as the ASUS flash utility would only load from a floppy, which I didn't build my system with.
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2004, 07:18:10 AM »
Quote
Downix:  A reminder, this is not the end, it is still but the beginning. A first public beta.

Indeed.  I know I'm nitpicking, here, but the documentation is definately not HTML compliant and has more than a few parsing errors.  It's good form for any IT company to produce clean HTML, especially for documentation.  I always seem to need a Windows box to read Linux install documentation.  ;-)

The rest of the installation seems OK, given that it's a developer release.  I'd be very surprised if the final has the same procedure.

Quote
Neko:  What a beautiful firmware upgrade procedure they have :)

Ugh.  Please tell me this is because of the "beta" nature of the OS.  I mean, what the hell is the "ide reset" command doing in there?  I haven't seen firmware like that since my OS/2 days.

Quote
MikeyMike:  What firmware updates are notably "nice"?

I guess people still think BIOS updates are only for technically inclined geeks.  Most people never update their firmware, which is why many companies do it automatically.  Digital cameras, for example, will autoupdate their firmware.  I had a couple people bring dead cameras to the store, only to find out the firmware was corrupt.  When I try to fix them, it amazes me how horrible the update utilities are, and what terrible directions the companies provide.  No wonder people screw it up.  Contrary to popular belief, users are not complete idiots.  I really feel bad for people who don't know anything about computers.  Not a lot of progress has been made in the last 20 years, relatively speaking.

Quote
On Windows it is extremely rare to have a firmware update procedure that doesn't involve booting into DOS/a DOS disk. I don't know if Macs even "do firmware updates".

It never ceases to amaze me how horrible BIOS updates are on the PC.  Booting into DOS isn't the most difficult thing to do (unless you have a Win2K/XP CD, which doesn't boot to a prompt directly), but it is totally rediculous.  Why can't they just make a boot disk for you?  You always have to make your own boot disk and type in everything to start the flash program.  My dad just updated a BIOS on a friend's ASUS board, and the flashing utility didn't even use proper syntax at the command line.  There was no space between the flash switch and the ROM filename!  I thought it was just a typo in the manual. :-?

My dad owns an ABit board, and the flash updater that runs within Windows isn't too bad.  You do have to "install" the flash utility and reboot, though, because it has to be installed as a kernel driver to work.  It still makes me nervous to run the utility, especially since it downloads the BIOS right off the Internet and flashes it imediately without making a backup, first.  At least it asks for confirmation, first!

Macs have transparrent BIOS updates.  If you install MacOS9 on a pre-9 Mac, it will update the BIOS automatically.  I found that out the hard way .  I was wondering why our old Mac suddenly took four times longer to get through hardware checks, and the entrance screen suddenly looked different.  :-)

Then again, I've seen far, far worse BIOS patches.  I had to update an old Compaq, once, and the BIOS had a complete GUI designed to look like Windows 3.0, but worked ten times worse.  All the options basicly boiled down to, "Windows (auto) / Unix (hardware offset)".  Took me about an hour to replace the sickly, original hard drive with a "modern" three giger.  I forgot how long the actual BIOS update took.  I had no documentation, so it was almost an all-night project.
 

Offline CD32Freak

Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2004, 08:59:19 AM »
Nowadays, most motherboards have a dual BIOS, one fixed (i.e. non-flashable) and one which you can update. Sounds a lot like those good old Kickstart switchers, doesn't it? :-)

Wouldn't it be a great idea to have something similar for the AmigaOne? *hint* *hint* Jens Schoenfeld  :-D ;-)
 

Offline Rogue

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2004, 10:13:21 AM »
Quote
Considering that Amigans can have trouble unpacking a tar.gz or installing samba, updating the firmware looks tough


I'm sorry, but I don't get this. Why is the firmware upgrade difficult? The guide lists three possible ways to do it (CD, Floppy, TFTP). You can simply pick one of them which seems easy for you (and entering "fdcboot; bootm" doesn't take too much brainpower in my book).

The most complicated part is the tftpboot, but then, if you are able to set up a tftp server on your machine, the rest should be easy for you, too.

Pressing the "o" and "k" keys is just a security measure to enforce people to actually read what it says.

Besides, you get a real nice progress bar when erasing/reflashing your ROM  :-)

Quote
At least it's well described.


Indeed. Carl did an excellent job there.

Quote
it still looks messy and horrible to me.


I'm open for suggestions on how to improve this. However, as I pointed out above, I don't see anything problematic about entering "fdcboot; bootm" on a command prompt. It certainly doesn't look more horrible to me than "boot /pci/ide/disk@0,0:0 up050404". I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect a user to type in a few letters verbatim.
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Offline Rogue

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2004, 10:21:05 AM »
Quote
Ugh. Please tell me this is because of the "beta" nature of the OS. I mean, what the hell is the "ide reset" command doing in there? I haven't seen firmware like that since my OS/2 days.


I would be surprised to see any PC bios offering a command prompt in the first place. The "ide reset" command is only there to ensure that the CD is recognized if you inserted it after the first reset.  Again, I don't see the problem with entering "fdcboot; bootm" from a prompt.
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Offline Rogue

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2004, 10:23:58 AM »
Quote
That would have been so cool as the ASUS flash utility would only load from a floppy, which I didn't build my system with.


That is why our firmware update offers three possibilities (CD, Floppy and network; theoretically you can also transfer the floppy image to a harddisk, but then...)
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Offline EntilZha

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2004, 10:40:31 AM »
> What a beautiful firmware upgrade procedure they have :)

You mean like

] fdcboot

Yeah, simple, isn't it ?
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Offline Quixote

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2004, 12:06:30 PM »
;-) Personally, I am happy that altering the firmware is difficult.  It's a good thing(C).  Especially, when we entertain the opposite scenario.

:-? Would you really prefer that Microsoft was able to alter your computer's firmware from Redmond without telling you that it was even done, let alone needing your permission?  Now add in the TCPA, and BPL (Broadband over Power Lines,) and we've made possible the Service Dependent Computer.  One that will not even boot without obtaining permission from the powers that be.  Say, a government or corporation.  

:-( That future is not for me, sir, not for me.  I am very happy that altering an AmigaOne's firmware involves lots of human interaction in front of the box itself.
 

Offline Warface

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2004, 12:50:17 PM »
I have clear recollection of the responses to my article, where I wrote down, that the MorphOS CD starts with

boot /pci/cd boot.img

in the OpenFirmware prompt, that it's alien, and not Amiga at all. (On a side note I fear there will be no real Amigas anymore.)

The OS4 pre-release install guide seems fair enough to me, and I'm glad that the overall acceptance is better than my article's a year or more ago.
 

Offline jj

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2004, 01:33:32 PM »
Well I have an ASUS A7V8X and I can confirm that there are three options to flashing the BIOS

1) make a bootbale disk old style
2) put the bios file on a normal floppy and use the in built flash utility

or the easiest way

3) use the update proggy from windows which will search for a newer bios of the asus website and then flash it all from within windows
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Offline amigamad

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Re: AmigaOS4 pre-release guide
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 13, 2004, 03:15:09 PM »
Quote
It's better than the updater built in to the BIOS of ASUS boards.


No its not the built in asus one is the best i have used,you dont need no messing around creating bootdisks and its easy .   :-?
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