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Author Topic: Flaky software could crash your car  (Read 8067 times)

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Offline Lo

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2004, 11:39:08 PM »
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True very scary thought its bad enough if your engine stops running while your moving if you have power steering its very hard to turn the wheel .


Ever since cars were equipped with processors, they have had a "Safe mode" as a default should a CPU or one of the many sensors die.  This would show up on your dashboard as a "Check Engine" or "Service Soon" light.   Your car is now not using a processor and your mileage will be terrible, but otherwise safe.
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Offline Jose

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2004, 11:44:58 PM »
Hmm, how do you guys think a car would run with windows installed?  :-D
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Offline amigamadTopic starter

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2004, 11:49:42 PM »
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Ever since cars were equipped with processors, they have had a "Safe mode" as a default should a CPU or one of the many sensors die. This would show up on your dashboard as a "Check Engine" or "Service Soon" light. Your car is now not using a processor and your mileage will be terrible, but otherwise safe.


It does on the m3 cavalier i have now but on my 1985 cavalier mk2 1800 sri i used to have there was no warning light but that was reliable and made with better quality componants the newer cars seem to be even less reliable due to the increase in electrics i much prefer an classic and older cars due to the fact they have no stupid computers to go wrong . :-)
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Offline amigamadTopic starter

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2004, 11:54:04 PM »
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Hmm, how do you guys think a car would run with windows installed?


Yes as long as control alt delete was intergrated into a  one button configuration it could be mounted on the steering wheel and pressed easy when the system crashes and you need to reboot to use the brakes. :-D  :-D
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Offline Methuselas

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2004, 01:46:32 AM »
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Yes as long as control alt delete was intergrated into a one button configuration it could be mounted on the steering wheel and pressed easy when the system crashes and you need to reboot to use the brakes.  


considering it's windoze, wouldn't that be brake pedal, gas pedal and slamming the car's stick in reverse? LOL Imagine you're driving and your window turns into a blue screen???? *shudders*
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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2004, 01:55:26 AM »
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That was the first time I ever broke 100 MPH on a raised highway! Of course, you either go with the flow or get run over.
Give me a break! You haven't driven until you've drivin in Athens, Greece! It's insane!!!

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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2004, 01:57:02 AM »
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Everybody thinks they're a good driver. The road deaths statistics disagree.
Perhaps, and you can always spot the bad drivers; they're the ones following the speed limit!

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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2004, 02:07:23 AM »
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I OBEY the traffic laws. Why?? 'Cos they're here to protect me.
I don't buy that. Only you can protect yourself. Obey the laws if you wish, but it's only your alertness that will prevent you from making a mistake.

I've been invloved in two accidents, neither my fault. The first was when a car spun out in front of me while attempting a lane change under VERY icy conditions. He started doing 360's infront of me and I plowed into him, no way I could have prevented that. The other was when a guy ran a red light, and if it wasn't for the fact that another car was blocking my view, I probably would have stopped in time to prevent that accident (which wrote off my first Supra).

Anyway, I was obeying the traffic laws, and so was the other guy in the first accident, he spun out because he had ####ty tires or just didn't realize how slippery it was that day. The second guy wasn't paying attention and ran the light. If both were more alert to the conditions and the traffic signals, neither accident would have happened.

Ultimately, one needs to compensate for other people's poor driving skills. It's one thing to tail gate or weave through traffic at high speeds, but it's another to exceed the speed limit in an otherwise empty street under good conditions. Personally, I find that those drivers who follow the traffic laws to the T are the worst drivers - and mostly because they are insecure behind the wheel and hope the traffic laws will somehow protect them. I at least know perfectly well what my car is and is not capable of because I've taken it to it's limits and beyod. As a result, my rear wheel drive sports car has never been stuck in snow or in a ditch.

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Offline Methuselas

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2004, 06:41:24 AM »
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Perhaps, and you can always spot the bad drivers; they're the ones following the speed limit!


How exactly is going the speed limit a sign of a 'bad' driver, Mike? I see cops flash their lights 'cos they don't want to wait at a light or a stop sign. I see cops speeding all the time and disregarding their own traffic laws, yet they have NO problem issuing you a ticket for violating a traffic law. Does that make them 'GOOD' drivers? There's nothing wrong with flowing with traffic, but if someone wants to go the speed limit, which is the law, how is that bad? Seems to me that the only reason it's bad, is when it incoveniences you. That's not the type of mentality I would classify in a 'good' driver.

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Anyway, I was obeying the traffic laws, and so was the other guy in the first accident, he spun out because he had ####ty tires or just didn't realize how slippery it was that day. The second guy wasn't paying attention and ran the light. If both were more alert to the conditions and the traffic signals, neither accident would have happened.


And your point is? While the first one was a situation that couldn't really be avoided, the SECOND guy and I quote you, 'wasn't paying attention and ran the light.' THAT, my friend, is clearly someone that should NOT be behind a wheel. Excuse me, but how can you run a light by NOT paying attention. That's got to be the STUPIDEST excuse for an accident I've ever heard?!!? ( I do hope you got something out of it.)

In both of those instances, situations arised that could NOT be avoided. The first one, however, was one that could not be helped. He lost control of his car and you hit him. In ice, you were helpless and there isn't much to do. I've driven in ice and know how it is. Most people have driven in rain several times and yet there are STILL idiots that don't think 'Gee, the roads are slick. I should change my driving to compensate for the loss of traction, due to rain.'

The second guy BLATANTLY disregarded the traffic signals. I'm sorry, but when I'm coming to an intersection that has a light, I pay ATTENTION. If he had just obeyed the rules, he wouldn't have hit you. but he didn't care. He didn't want to wait at the light, so he ran it.

 
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Ultimately, one needs to compensate for other people's poor driving skills.


That's still no reason to not follow the rules. Sure there are instances where the rules must be broken, but if you do it constantly and without a thought for the others on the road, you are no better than the people complained about. If some guy were to slam on his brakes in front of me and even with my typical 'car length' of space between us, I would CERTAINLY change a lane without signaling, if it would prevent an accident.

Most accidents aren't caused by human error, but by negligence. My ex-wife totalled her car, 'cos her phone rang and she reached down on the passenger-side floorboard to get her phone out of her purse. THAT is ignorance. (Consequently, she wouldn't speak to me for over a week, 'cos though I sympathized that she lost her car, it was from her own negligence and I had no sympathy at all for that.) If she had just waited to answer her phone, it wouldn't have happened, but it was more important to answer the phone than to pay attention to the road.

People get into accidents, 'cos they change lanes without looking, run stopsigns or stoplights, disregard 'no left turn' signs, etc.  Hell, there are idiots that kill people 'cos the go the wrong way on a street.

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It's one thing to tail gate or weave through traffic at high speeds


One of the biggest reasons for pileups on freeways. God forbid they have to wait to move, when by changing a lane without looking they can move a whopping ONE car length ahead... :-x

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Personally, I find that those drivers who follow the traffic laws to the T are the worst drivers


Really? So that guy that ran the light and hit you, he is what you would classify as a 'good' driver, Mike? Get real. He hit you simply 'cos he didn't want to wait at a RED light and ran it, smacking you in the process. If he was REALLY a good driver, he would have slowed down and stopped at the light, since it was OBVIOUSLY your turn to go. Like you said yourself, your view was blocked by another car. You didn't see him coming.  Since you couldn't see him, due to the other car, you MUST have been moving through the intersection. How could he have missed the light, but not notice the cars MOVING across his path??

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and mostly because they are insecure behind the wheel and hope the traffic laws will somehow protect them.


I am NOT insecure behind the wheel. I am constantly aware of what's going on around me when I am driving, 'cos most people, yourself included by what you have written, are BLINDED by the fact that there are OTHER people occupying the road, other than yourself and I am in no way going to endanger MY life, so you can gun your car at 150mph and cut me off without signaling, simply 'cos you want to get somewhere faster. It's ignorance like that killing motorists, not me.

And yes, I will admit that there are drivers out there that ARE insecure about their driving, namely young drivers and old drivers, but considering how many traffic fatalities there are in the US/Canada per year, it's no wonder. If we didn't have these stupid, ignorant f*cks that HAD to race, or disregard traffic signs, or talk on the phone, etc., we CERTAINLY wouldn't have has many accidents as we do now.

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I at least know perfectly well what my car is and is not capable of because I've taken it to it's limits and beyod.


What do you want, Mike, a cookie? Even RACE car drivers get into accidents and that's all they do is drive their cars, learning the 'ins and outs' of their machine. You think that 'cos you know your car, you're above the laws of the road and they don't pertain to you? Once again, you've proven my point that ignorance is what kills people. So since you 'know' your car, you feel that you can just 'whip' through traffic how you please??

Sure, it's good to know your car, but many people out there don't and a vast majority of them are the ones responsible for collisions. I haven't gotten into any accidents because I take EXTRA precautions, not because I 'know my car'.

I must have touched a nerve with you, Mike. I wasn't trying to get a rise out of anyone, but you immediately started to bash people who 'follow the rules', which only leads me to think that you give no consideration to those driving around you. I'll be waiting for your flame, 'cos you always do. Then again, *I* am not the one that's been in two collisions with other vehicles. :-D
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Offline PMC

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2004, 10:33:37 AM »
Mercedes is said to be looking at removing the physical link between the steering wheel and the actual steering rack.  BMW offers an electronically controlled variable rate rack on the new 5 Series.

As an enthusiastic driver I cannot see how such an artificial steering system can duplicate the feel of a decent rack and pinion set up.  It would be like playing Virtua Racer or something!  Just how would such a system cope in event of the engine stalling?  

My Alfa Romeo has a drive by wire throttle, which is supposed to enhance throttle response.  In theory it all works well, but the legendary stereotypical Italian electrical gremlins occasionally like to manifest themselves...  :-D

Adding complex software to a car will only add more things to go wrong IMHO.
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Offline lempkee

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2004, 03:10:20 PM »
a day in 2015:

my friend call me and ask me to pick him up at the pub , and i have to reply ! sorry but you will have to wait for a few hours as i am currently scanning my car for viruses and after that i need to defragment the engine, so maybe you should take a cab instead?
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Offline PMC

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2004, 04:24:29 PM »
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But software can also make machines accidentally stop working, something computer manufacturers know all too well.


How about this for a scary thought:  From the 1970's jet fighters like the F-16 and Eurofighter Typhoon are actually aerodynamically unstable - without computer intervention they'd literally fall from the sky.  

One of the reasons why the Typhoon and Lockheed F-22 are taking so long to enter service is because of the need to test the software used to keep the jets airborne....

And if you think it's only military jets using "fly by wire" then remember that both Airbus and Boeing airliners also have a computer interface between the pilot/s and control surfaces...

A cheery thought for you all :-D
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2004, 04:38:35 PM »
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Perhaps, and you can always spot the bad drivers; they're the ones following the speed limit!


Don't be a tw@t mike. That is the most stupid thing I've heard allday and I work in a Council office!

Offline bloodline

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2004, 04:48:41 PM »
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I've been invloved in two accidents, neither my fault. The first was when a car spun out in front of me while attempting a lane change under VERY icy conditions. He started doing 360's infront of me and I plowed into him, no way I could have prevented that. The other was when a guy ran a red light, and if it wasn't for the fact that another car was blocking my view, I probably would have stopped in time to prevent that accident (which wrote off my first Supra).

Anyway, I was obeying the traffic laws, and so was the other guy in the first accident, he spun out because he had ####ty tires or just didn't realize how slippery it was that day. The second guy wasn't paying attention and ran the light. If both were more alert to the conditions and the traffic signals, neither accident would have happened.


I fail to see how "running a red light" is obeying Traffic laws...

In the UK all vehicles must have a yearly Road Worthiness test (Known as the MOT), I know that this is not the case in Canada, but tires that are unsuitable for the road are not legal in this country and I'm sure not in Canada too!

Alertness is also a legal requirement, one must be aware of other road users and beable to predict what other useres will do in a given situation. If they abey the law you can predict how they will react, if not you will be less accurate in your predictions.

I have been cought speeding twice, both times when it was a stupid teenager. I paid the price, lost my licence (The 6 points rule) and had to retake my test. Which does give be the boast of passign my test first time... and then first time the second time too :-)

I've never had a crash or accident. I think I'm a good driver and I certainly don't break the speed limit ever, anymore since I learned my lesson.

Offline Glaucus

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2004, 05:30:35 PM »
heh, the point I was trying to make about running the red was that there's a difference between people who purposefully disobey the traffic laws and those that do so by accident. For example, few people speed and swerve through traffic by accident. Conversely, only those with a death wish would blindly drive through a red light. I'm NOT defending the guy who blew through the red light at all, and in fact would argue he's a bad driver but NOT because he broke the law but because he wasn't paying attention. Hell, I've driven through a red light safely, after stopping at the light at 4am and noticing there are no other cars anywhere insight. Does that make me dangerous? Hardly! If you wanna obey the rules to a T, go ahead, but don't delude yourself that consciously disobeying particular traffic laws under particular conditions makes you a dangerous driver.

Anyway, I thought I already stated that a good driver is an alert driver who knows the capabilities of their car, any monkey can obey the limit. And why do I think those drivers who obey all the traffic laws are the worst? Because these drivers, in my opinion, are ill equipped to deal with extraordinary conditions that my arise. I find their two hands on the wheel, driving exactly the speed limit a sign of insecurity! Safe driving is about dealing with the unexpected. A good driver knows how their car reacts to all weather and road conditions, and the best way to do that is to take the car to the limits on a regular basis. Of course this doesn't mean driving like a maniac through traffic, this means testing your cars turning and breaking capabilities while on remote roads or parking lots. In otherwords, experience is a big factor as well.

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Offline Glaucus

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 20, 2004, 06:11:22 PM »
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And if you think it's only military jets using "fly by wire" then remember that both Airbus and Boeing airliners also have a computer interface between the pilot/s and control surfaces...

A cheery thought for you all
Although true, and I already knew that, military and commercial aircraft have teams of mechanics and technitians constantly checking and upgrading these vehicles. Cars tend to get far less tender loving care, and are often abused. Not only that, many of the mechanics out there are of dubious quality, often improperly fixing the simplest of things.

  - Mike
YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE