IBM wins the CPU contract for the Microsoft's X-BOX 2.

[Waccoon]

@PastAmigaOwner:  All the Macs I've taken apart have HUGE heatsinks, though.  The G3 I used to have at work has a heatsink about 18 square inches, with a 120mm case fan blowing on it.  That's one advantage of being able to build custom cases.  The G5 Mac also has a case fan in front of each CPU heatsink.  That's hardly passive cooling.  Maybe Apple is really pushing these processors to their limit?

I also heard the Cube had overheating problems, because the video chip gets too hot and thus affects the CPU.  It doesn't matter to the end user what the problem is.

[whabang]

@KennyR
The 933 MHz Via C3 has been tested, by playing Quake III for hours, without any forms of cooling.

[whabang]

An IBM-CPU, an ATI graphics card:
All we need is a new HAL, and we'll be able to run OS4 on it! :-D

[mikeymike]

Latest Pentium, would be the Pentium 4-Mobile at 2 GHz, think it averages about two watts

Then it's not running at 2GHz when it's only consuming 2W.  Heard of SpeedStep before?  My laptop rather likes it.  My P3M 1.2GHz can clock down to 650 or 800MHz.  When it's at 1.2GHz, you can heard the CPU fan whirring.  The software allows you to change the clock frequency on the fly.

[minator]

This is *not* an announcement that IBM *is* providing the CPU silicon.  This is a cross-licensing agreement announcement only.

According to IBM they are providing "Processor Technology", meaning this thing could have a G5.

Modern PPC (970) is just as hot as x86 CPUs.  

Not quite, IIRC average power for the 2GHz G5 is 50-70W, Intel P4EE is 92W, the next gen will be over 100W.

The last PPC that could get away with using a heat sink and no CPU fan, was what, the G3 600MHz?

We've ran a 1GHz G4 (10W) with a fairly small fanless heatsink.

Latest Pentium, would be the Pentium 4-Mobile at 2 GHz, think it averages about two watts.

I'd love to know where people get these low figures from, according to the Intel spec sheet it's 30W / 20W depending on clock voltage & clock speed.

The only way you can get low power out of an x86 is to cut the performance.  VIA C3 is a good example of this.

[mikeymike]

I'd love to know where people get these low figures from, according to the Intel spec sheet it's 30W / 20W depending on clock voltage & clock speed.

The only way you can get low power out of an x86 is to cut the performance. VIA C3 is a good example of this.

And/or reduce the number of instructions the chip is capable of.

[DaveP]

Given chip design resource has been assigned to the project
I very much doubt that it is a cross licensing or rebranding exercise.

Sounds like a new or enhanced chip to me.

[ksk]

IBM presents their G3 CPU line as the ones suitable for game machines. IIRC 900Mhz 750Fx consumes 3,5watts... perhaps the XBOX2 chip will be a modified 750VX.

[Van_M]

"The only way you can get low power out of an x86 is to cut the performance. VIA C3 is a good example of this."
Actually the Via C3 CPU has so poor performance, mainly because Via is a much smaller company than Intel, AMD and IBM, specialised in mobo chipsets. They most obviously don't have the funds to hire a legion of electronics engineering experts like Intel or AMD and therefore the design of their cpu's is monolithic and competely anoptimized. I read somewhere that the Via C3's design ressembles mainly to that of intel 486!  :-?

[Crumb]

What about the C3s?

C3 are waaaay slower than ppcs... they are waaaaay slower than celerons at the same clock rate.

[DethKnight]

If you tend to believe any of the rumors,

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030509020831.shtml

[bhoggett]

@Crumb

C3 are waaaay slower than ppcs... they are waaaaay slower than celerons at the same clock rate.

Yes, they are, but that wasn't the point I was making. You'll note I was responding to KennyR's assertion that the last fanless x86 chips died with the Cyrix 300 and the P2.

For better performance you'd need to look at the mobile models from both Intel and AMD.

Then you have the various statements that high end PPCs don't need any cooling, when in most cases they need a great big heat sink and active case cooling instead. Expensive silent case fans are not the same thing as no fans at all.

That's not to say PPC's don't run cooler that x86 chips cycle for cycle, but the issue is often exagerrated.

Incidentally, I note that the "more powerful cycle for cycle" argument has been rolled out again. While this is true, it's usually irrelevant. the comparison that really matters is "performance/price" because we all know we shouldn't pay any attention to cycle figures.  :-P

[downix]

According to IBM they are providing "Processor Technology", meaning this thing could have a G5.

Yes, it could.  It could also mean an x86, or a G3.  IBM has made x86 cores, even a x86-compatible PowerPC core before.  (the 615)  It could also mean a cut-down G5 combined with Microsoft's recent purchase of VirtualPC.  Right now this all is conjecture.

Tomorrow Microsoft is to have an announcement with more details on this deal, I highly suggest we all wait and see what comes out of there.

[DaveP]

The stuff available internally is only more detailed in you can see the resources that are assigned, so you can guess, but beyond that nothing firm that tells us the technology being used.

[minator]

Actually the Via C3 CPU has so poor performance, mainly because Via is a much smaller company than Intel, AMD and IBM, specialised in mobo chipsets. They most obviously don't have the funds to hire a legion of electronics engineering experts like Intel or AMD and therefore the design of their cpu's is monolithic and competely anoptimized. I read somewhere that the Via C3's design ressembles mainly to that of intel 486!

VIA are not poor, they had the money to purchase not just 1 but 2 x86 CPU vendors!

The C3 is based on the IDT Centaur design, it was never designed for speed, it is designed specifically for low power.  Designing an x86 compatible CPU is no small (or cheap) effort.  The C3 is compatible with the full Pentium 4 instruction set, it even identifies itself as one to the OS.

It is like a 486, it's that way on purpose.

The stuff available internally is only more detailed in you can see the resources that are assigned, so you can guess, but beyond that nothing firm that tells us the technology being used.

It looks like a 970 derivative.  It needs to be significantly faster then the current 600MHz P3 and I don't think a G3 will give a big enough difference.  Also we are talking a couple of years away by which time the 990 will be nearing and the 970 positively old.

The 980 is expected (and rumoured) to be out next year.  IBM have already talked on record about a "consumer POWER5".  I expect the 990 will be a consumer POWER6.

However I think this quote on IBMs web site pretty much says it:

According to Bernie Meyerson, IBM Fellow and chief technologist for IBM's Technology Group, the new Xbox technologies will be based on the latest in IBM's family of state-of-the-art processors

[PastAmigaOwner]

@PastAmigaOwner: All the Macs I've taken apart have HUGE heatsinks, though. The G3 I used to have at work has a heatsink about 18 square inches, with a 120mm case fan blowing on it. That's one advantage of being able to build custom cases. The G5 Mac also has a case fan in front of each CPU heatsink. That's hardly passive cooling. Maybe Apple is really pushing these processors to their limit?

While I agree with you that PPCs definitely do generate some significant heat, I have a dual G4 PowerMac (with just normal sized heat sinks), a 1.25Ghz G4 PowerBook with passive cooling only (unless it gets really hot, then the fan kicks in), and a Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5.  While the G5 certainly does have its fair share of active cooling (9 fans), the fans spin at very low RPMs and this is the quitest computer I've ever owned.  

Bottom line is that there are numerous PPC processors that could fit into the form factor of game machine without cooling issues.  Apple is looking at using liquid cooling systems to get a G5 into a PowerBook and Sega has done this before with the Dreamcast, so it's not out of the question.