Bill McEwen not appearing at AMIwest

[seer]

Well said zudobug.

[Legerdemain]

Actually, if I were AMiGA Inc. I wouldn't bother about coming to the boards and trying to stop the FUD. It may be that lack of information and updates starts rumours... or "FUD"... or whatever the like...  and it may be that AMiGA Inc. themselves have made some very illogical statements or whatever (I'm not into it, can't say anything about it), but in the end...   the ones talking "FUD" or starting rumours, why should they be "updated with the truth", since they are the ones that "mainly" helps spreading the "FUD" and the "rumours".

It's a little bit like "hell, yeah, let's talk bullshit about the king and the queen, because then they have an OBLIGATION to dement what is said". It doesn't really work that way.

I'm still so utterly fascinated by this thread...  this is actually a first for me, being able to see it all... and man, this is way more interesting than whatever the AMiGA One or the Pegasos may bring in the near future...

...but then again...

*YAWN*

[KennyR]

@zudobug

I think the point that is being made here is that criticism is fine, and Amiga Inc deserve it. But what is going on here is a little more than criticism. In some cases it's plain rude and uncivil.

I've tried to remain at least an angry-civil; I'm not going to lower myself to the level of personal insults like others here. And I won't start throwing wild accusations about like the paypal stuff I know nothing about. What I have (vaguely) cited as AInc's failings is hardly controversial: its common knowledge and only the most shortsighted or stubborn can refuse to acknowledge it. Yet they do. And they do it a lot. And before you know it there is a tide of totally misplaced optimism that always crashes and burns in the worst possible way, and at the end thousands of good people just decide to give up and go to another platform. This happens again and again and again so often it's heartbreaking. It's happened since '94.

The irony is, that when when anyone tries step in to try to remind people about how misplaced their trust is, they get called FUD spreaders and trolls. It's as if its some kind of defensive mechanism that acts in leiu of any reason or common sense. They can't properly defend AInc because they have become indefensible, so they use excuses and counter-accusations instead. There is nothing wrong with criticism as long as it is not just FUD - even if it is old arguments. I reiterate that people who are fed up of hearing about this should just stay out of these threads. Seriously. I think saying that it is boring or stupid to criticise is just one of the forms of defensiveness I outlined above. It's the only way to support AInc and still look semi-credible. And that goes for *YAWN* guy too. If he's so tired he should go to bed.

Most of the people doing this are pegasos owners and genesi supporters. So no surprise some folk may reason there is an agenda behind the crap.

Admittedly this is true. Many of these people picked their side years ago. But many were blonde cheerleaders like myself who just turned sour in the face of yet more broken promises. Many of those kind of people love Amigas for what they are and what they were, and its no real surprise that many went to MOS. MOS is the closest thing to the real Amiga experience you can get in the current day. And Genesi have spent lots of money and time and effort recruiting people - something AInc have never done and never will. Another good thing about the 'Genesi crowd' is that they keep it real - they don't think that their OS will save the Amiga and make it popular again or other such deluded nonsense.

Old arguments are dug up over and over and it's boring. Do you really think everyone would forget about Amiga Inc's wrong doings if you didn't keep reminding us?

I know you won't forget, as most other intelligent people won't. But I can say that some others have either very short memories or they are very forgiving. Or they really are blind to what's going on, intellectually revolting as this may be. It's hard not to comment when you see yet more AInc bull and people swallowing it up like good little zealots or apologising for massive AInc blunders or coverups. My personal bugbear is when people think AInc are beyond any kind of reproach just because they have the name. Most of these people wouldn't care if I insulted Microsoft in the same way - my avatar pees on them and I've had no complaints of being a troll yet for that!

[Legerdemain]

@KennyR

They can't properly defend AInc because they have become indefensible, so they use excuses and counter-accusations instead.

I think saying that it is boring or stupid to criticise is just one of the forms of defensiveness I outlined above. And that goes for *YAWN* guy too.

Yet it is funny you mention me at all, even drawing me INTO the discussion, even though I haven't said A THING about anything concerned the REAL issue this thread is dealing with. It's impressive how you've managed to get me involved, even without me having made one single statement in this issue (besides not really bothering at all, but anything but the behaviour of the people involved in the discussion).

Or did I misread your post? Have you not placed me in the "I defend AInc"-category? Are you just tired of me making comment on peoples behaviour on the board?

[KennyR]

Or did I misread your post? Have you not placed me in the "I defend AInc"-category?

Then I must have you wrong. What exactly is your reason to come into discussions you're not interested in and print *YAWN* a lot? Or if you're fascinated, why not join in?

[seer]

@KennyR

The irony is, that when when anyone tries step in to try to remind people about how misplaced their trust is, they get called FUD spreaders and trolls.

However good your intentions may be, have you considered the option that these people know the same facts and came to another conclusion how unlikely that other conclusion can be in your eyes ?

I'm neithe pro Amiga Inc or Pro Genesi.. I dislike both to be honest, tho at least Bill and Rachel come in the forums, something I regret the other Bill doesn't (Fleecy seems to come sometimes tho).. Wheter IU will buy a new Amiga or a Peg.. If I could I would buy both, as of now, the BS both sides spew just don't make it worth the risk (IE will either of them be around next year)

[Legerdemain]

@KennyR

My reason is that I find constructive criticism being one thing, criticism another.

Also, I find it strange that people can't use proper language on the board, behaving, not calling people names, not flaming.

Furthermore, I find it my legal right to comment on this behaviour, yawning just to point out how ridicilously low I think the discussions are running (not talking about the unquestionable facts, but the way of having the discussion).

So, that is my reason for yawning. To make a statement, but apparently not regarding the newsposts real issue.

[Warface]

"Old arguments are dug up over and over and it's boring. Do you really think everyone would forget about Amiga Inc's wrong doings if you didn't keep reminding us?"

Honestly? Yes. The 'Amiga Inc. "lies"' thread is a perfect example.

Not everyone followed from day one their moves. I have, and I liked them back then, had mails with Fleecy, sent them suggestions,  and I even believed in them.

What is tiring that every intentional/unintentional deception they make is a "first" for many.

[GadgetMaster]

I'm neither pro Amiga Inc or Pro Genesi..

It's a good thing to base judgement on products and service rather than what you think of a companies politics when making purchasing decisions.

The majority of computer users are neither stupid nor fickle for chosing Microsoft products. They do it mainly beacause it is less trouble to go with a usable mainstream product. They do not bother about the corporate politics nor the personalities of  Microsoft Corp. (Which many many people dislike btw).

I have come to the conclusion that any emotion positive or negative is wasted on any organisation in todays business climate.

If you want ethics and morals then you need to go to religious groups not financially oriented companies. Every business is out there to make money, it's as simple as that.

I find it a bit funny how these terms 'Blue Troll' & 'Red Troll' have become commonplace in forum discussions.

The most intelligent remarks I have ever seen around these forums are by Gary_C. If there were more rational people around here I would presume that there would be less flame wars.

But then again maybe if i'm neither blue nor red I run the risk of being called a 'Purple Troll'.
I can live with that  ;-)

[seer]

It's a good thing to base judgement on products and service rather than what you think of a companies politics when making purchasing decisions.

I agree with this point, however, how can I expect the service to be good of a company with all this BS going around, some generated by a CEO (Or someting like that title) of one copmany while the other is.. Well.. hiding ??
How can any other copmany take either seriously ? If the current support from other parties is all there is, well, neither will survive (IMHO).. and I don't see any bigger supporters coming anytime soon, not with the current way of things.. (See below)

The majority of computer users are neither stupid nor fickle for chosing Microsoft products. They do it mainly beacause it is less trouble to go with a usable mainstream product. They do not bother about the corporate politics nor the personalities of Microsoft Corp.

Sure.. But that's indeed only because they know about it.. "Everybody" else has got one, if I buy a Windows PC now, I'm 99.99% certain it will still be supported in 3 years time..

It's getting harder and harder to know who to believe..

It's not just that I don't like the companies politics, it's the companies politics that make the future of both platforms uncertain.. I'm not going to spend 600 or more on a platform that might truly be death next summer..

For some the Amiga is a Hobby, for me, it WAS my only choice for a Computer untill the death of my A4000.. I didn't buy a new one cause a new Amiga was just around the corner and I didn't have the money to buy an A4000 and later a next gen Amiga.. I bought a second hand PC (Real cheap, but more powerfull then an A4000/060/PPC/CVPPC) and waited like so many... Only to be dragged into the FUD WARS..

[GadgetMaster]

@Seer

I hear you.

I am sure there are many of us concerned about the long term future of our chosen platform.

It is ironic that things look the bleakest at a time when most options have actually materialised.

As Amigans we should be used to the rollercoaster ride by now :-P  ;-)

[seer]

As Amigans we should be used to the rollercoaster ride by now :-P  ;-)

I'm getting to old for rollercoasters... :-o  ;-)

Still, I waited for a long time.. I survived the Amiga vs Atari wars, the Amiga vs the Console wars.. I might just survive the "Fud Wars".. I guess I can wait another year to see who will survive..

The Amiga is death ! Long live its succesor !  (Be it AmigaONE/OS4, Pegasos/Morphos1/x86/AROS)

[Dan]

What, only 70 comments?
 :-)
Does this mean that there wont be anymore ask Fleecy at the amiga inc cheerleader site? :lol:
I like I care.

[HMetal]

@Dammy

I am man enough and will apologize to you, if I am incorrect.  I will consider this forgotten when you apologize to me for propagating the original post and refrain from further propagation and refrain from continuing the crusade about this paypal account nonsense, which I have flatly and firmly denied from day one, and am fully prepared to back my claims up in a court of law.

The reason I ask for the apology is because if you were not propagating it, then it would forever remain in the post on that "other" site where the majority of lunatics hang out and not on what I hoped would resume to be a normal Amiga community website, and I mean community both in the "red" and the "blue"  sense.

If this continues here on amiga.org then it once again becomes "YAHFLA" (yet another haven for lunatic accusations).  This is an image Wayne and his moderators were getting away from and I, for one, would like to see it remain free from nutjob accusations.  I'm sure the sensible members of both the "red" and "blue" sides would agree with me on this.

[meerschaum]

I'm staying outta this one, its gotten to personal and to weird...I dont like Amiga.inc but  I'm not about to get personally offensive over it....

(I know this may sound stupid BUT) did you try the guys email off MooBunny HMetal? it may be a legit email... if so... you can figure out who he is maybe...

[Jose]

@KennyR

"The irony is, that when when anyone tries step in to try to remind people about how misplaced their trust is, they get called FUD spreaders and trolls. It's as if its some kind of defensive mechanism that acts in leiu of any reason or common sense. "

I don't think the majority of people has the Amiga as their life saviour as you're painting. It's just a platform that they like. If it goes wrong well, shame. What you're calling "defensive" is just the reaction of some exagerated posts, that are not just talking about the apparent situation at AInc., as you know. Generally speaking of course.