Opinion Article : Amiga DE a Good Idea, Poor Execution

[tekmage]

Like many others I was interested in the idea of Amiga DE, a reported true write once run all environment.  Technologies like C and Java had been around but each had their own challenges to being a successful true cross platform language.  

Editors note: The opinions expressed in this article belong to the author and do not necessarily express the opinions of Amiga.org or it's staff members..

Everyone knows C is one of the most popular and most power programming languages around, and if it had not left so much up to the OS vendors to fill in might have achieved the goal of running virtually unchanged code just recompiled for the target.  Reality is, so much is platform dependant the efforts to make cross compiling apps work is in the OS platform them selves, the GNU world has been good about providing a common set of libraries and tools to allow a wide degree of portability across unix and fringe systems.  The amiga is a fringe system in this case, see geek gadgets.  

The problems with Java seam to have been mostly growing pains and sloppy application coding.  I’ve seen some Java apps that rock and some that are bloated memory sucking productivity killers.  The idea is great and platforms like J2ME really show off it’s ability.  But there is a hole, Java was designed to provide a generic computing environment in a virtual machine, all things to all people.  In this it has seam to failed.  There is a need for a strong platform geared toward extreme portability and “Multimedia” applications (read games).  

Enter Mophun (http://www.mophun.com/), err I meant AppForge (http://www.appforge.com), err I really meant AACE (http://www.amiga.com).  So what the hell am I talking about?  Both AppForge and Mophun provide developers with IDE’s that create content which runs on their “players”.  Port the player to a new platform and the content (read games) will magically run.  Currently AppForge supports Pocket PC, Palm and Symbian UIQ (Sony Ericsson (SE) P800 for now), mophun supports several SE models including Symbian based phones and Nokia Symbian phones.  What’s Symbian?  It’s an operating system born from Psion’s Epoc OS designed to run on devices like phones and PDA’s (http://www.symbian.com).  In comparison the Amiga AACE is available for Windows, Linux and Pocket PC (In the form of “game cards” which may or may not allow other content to be played, don’t know cause no one is talking about these “game cards”).  Looking at the AppForge page they have some 60 titles from home finance to Golf scorecard keepers.  The Mophun people promote what looks like 30 titles on their site. Amiga has about 25 titles on their site.  Both AppForge and Mophun have announced supporting new platforms in the last 3 months.  In the last 3 months Amiga We’ve seen a news letter, an apology, message about AmiWest, and two articles, no new content, no updates (for over a year), no new platforms.  

If Amiga plans to do anything with Amiga DE or AACE in providing leading content to the mobile market they better step up and start generating some noise.  The time is perfect to release for Symbian, over two million units sold in 3 quarters and that number is going no where but up.  Get off your ass Amiga Inc and do something!  Oh I forgot, they are already standing since their chairs are being sold.

Bill “tekmage” Borsari

PS  I’ll buy OS 4 and the Amiga One when they are available together, I will continue to support Amiga by purchasing whatever they produce.  I’m still very loyal to the Amiga, just frustrated by Amiga Inc.

[redrumloa]

I’m still very loyal to the Amiga, just frustrated by Amiga Inc.

You're not the only one.

[alex]

I couldn't agree more.

C- is very fast, relatively easy to learn, but relies heavy on the OS, but has the best proven track record and is stable.

Java - Much easier to learn, but heavy overhead, slow as hell, and I don't see the mass of applications using it yet.

Amiga DE - Major major distraction for Amiga that WILL go down in the history books as the major single source of failure for the currnet Amiga name holders.

I'm not part of the "told you so" crowd, but more the, "what the hell are you wasting time and money on?" crowd.

The DE represented a unique idea, but I never saw the point to the essence of Amiga.  

Amiga for me is neither hardware or software.  For me Amiga represents an "EXPERIENCE".   The ultimate user experience regardless of whether you are a developer, casual user, or hardcore gamer, where the hardware was simple to upgrade and use, and where the OS was responsive, intuitive, powerful, yet easy to learn.  Together the hardware and software seemlessly integrated to provide the ultimate, most configurable, and unique user experience possible.

What exactly about the DE represents the experience or essence?

-Alex

[mikeymike]

I don't think I've heard enough 'real' information to know whether AmigaDE was poorly executed or not, from the start it just seems to have been a cloud of vapour with a few buzzwords lurking inside.

[downix]

I would disagree with you Alix...

but only about it being a "unique" idea.  

I pointed out that the same business plan that Amiga persued was done
before, and by companies with tens of millions to burn on R&D costs
alone.

Don't forget the Ada companies from the 80's that promiced "this
technology will reshape the world."  or the companies that hit upon
Java with the gusto of a grade school musical play.  They all forgot
one fundimental problem:

TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT MAKE A COMPANY.

A business needs business-ideas and business-applications to survive.
These are transparent to whatever technology you use to win your
market share.  Amiga came along with Tao's technology and went "we
wave the magic wand and poof, market will be created." So, when it
didn't... they failed.  

The "service-oriented" business that they tried to model themselves on
is the TOUGHEST one out there, as any restauranteer could tell you.
The easiest businesses are the ones with physical product, the
producers and manufacturers, as there is always something physical to
see.

THey took the hardest approach to business, and trusted to the tornado
to make them succeed.

[IonDeluxe]

I think Amiga Anywhere is an integral part of Amiga Inc. strategy to revive the Amiga platform.

The single biggest thing that stops people from changing platform and\or OS's is that thier applications are likely not to be able to run.

With AA replacement applications could be written for AA so they can run on these systems and allow a change over to the AmigaOne much easier.When the time comes, they can use that same software on the A1.

When AA and OS4 integrate, AA aplications are supposed to run natively, which should in turn boost performance.

If it was not for a string of companies pulling out of contracts with AA under mysterious circumstances, we would be seeing AA on 5 different devices already.I just hope the future track record will be far better than the past.

[System]

@Ion

> AA aplications are supposed to run natively

Trying to be impartial as I can, (AA/DE has never held any real interest for me outside of the abstract concept) the problem is that there are NO AA programs of note which will drive any desire to migrate to another platform, Amiga or otherwise.  It is not my desire to slam or upset those of you who've written really cool AA applications such as the crossword puzzle or scroller, but there is no killer application for AA as of yet.

Considering Amiga Inc's licensing scheme and demands, there is also no impetus on any major development company to create platform applications specifically for AA, as opposed to the other companies and efforts mentioned in Tekmage's article.

[Floid]

Good article, poor technical accuracy.  (Not that I did particularly better in the SCO lawsuit thread, though we all know it's *going* to be a copyright case whether they directly claim or not.)

C is tough to discuss.  If C had been as 'featured' as Pascal, something else would probably have come along to fit the C niche and 'ruin everything.'  Maybe we wouldn't be writing business software in it, and maybe the replacement would've forgone certain bogosities of the standard library (for others), but it'd still be out there as a hacker toy.  'Worse is better' - specifically, "Unix and C are the ultimate computer viruses." - makes more sense the longer you plod along in UNIXland.  Not that it's better for the *user,* but that it's proved a very competetive 'organism.'  (Please, no Creationist debates- and yes, our favorite platform was certainly the product of some Weird Science.  Nobody ever said Galatea could outcompete the cockroach*, though there's no reason there can't be non-aggressive symbiosis.)

AppForge uses compiled language dependent on a set of libs so fat that they've started to look like a VM without being one.  Application binaries are still platform-specific, but the API (via the 'Booster') is the same across platforms, allowing developers/distributors to conduct automated builds off a single source tree (same difference if you're a commercial house; bad news if you're a consumer with a SH/MIPS PocketPC and a vendor's saved time only building for XScale).  The distribution model for the 'Booster' seems like the most obfuscated way to "sell" software I've seen in a while, so they're probably shooting themselves in the foot with that, but it looks like they care mostly about corporates.

Mophun, on the other hand, does seem to use a VM as part of their solution.  They're gaming-specific- meaning it doesn't look like they're *trying* to tackle some of the things AInc. have- but it also seems they're more limited by their own business model- very similar to the "tools *and* distribution" model AInc. have followed, but with guaranteed customers in the form of their network/phone partners- than technically.  Looks like you'd have to download their kit to get any real documentation on the architecture.

Seems like Mophun and the various Java/BREW gaming engines are competition to what the 'DE' *is* (has been left at?), while Java's and AppForge's APIs are what it aspires to beat (or embrace).  Each of the implementations stated is limited in its own ways, and DE has always had the potential to win on deployability (no rebuilds, as with AppForge; no reliance on your mobile provider to offer the downloads, if the Player/"Digital Environment" road stays travelled- of course, I'm sure Mophun would sell you a license to distribute a standalone app with their 'emulator' if you were crazy enough and their contracts allow it), and extensibility- you could always port the AppForge Booster and Mophun player *onto* DE, if only it actually existed [as a user-hackable system, a-la PocketCosmo], and anyone could be made to care.

I'll keep holding my breath until OS4 launches or a company (conclusively ;-)) dies trying.

Edit:  @Wayne- Certainly can't argue with the second paragraph; either they're having better luck behind the scenes than they let on, or they're fighting over the last 3 hours of free AOL.  

---

*Or the ant, if you'd rather ascribe that position to Microsoft.

[amigamad]

Apart from microsoft who else is using amiga anywhere, can any one say they have seen this on the o2 pda phone thing that they said it would be on and sold in dixons. ?The tech tv video of bill demonstrating amiga anywhere between diffrent machines was interesting just a shame there a bit late what with java and rebol also allowin cross platform software compatability.As wayne said there are no killer aplications or games to make you cosider it. :-o

[ruben]

Well, this "article" is so bad, I'm not sure were to start.

1) It basically states that Java has failed, yet we see PDA/phone manufacturers lining up to support it, and developers seeing it as a blessing for portable and easy development, specially on embedded devices. Also "I’ve seen some Java apps that rock and some that are bloated memory sucking productivity killers" seems to be a rather generic phrase, were one can replace the "Java" word by  just about any platform out there and it will still hold true...

2) The 3 environments are presented as if they were the same thing under a different name. They have the same concept, yes - it's called competition. But each surely have pros and cons against each other (which are not presented in the article)

3) The last paragraph is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve any comment.

In the end, this "article" is obviously written  with the sole purpose of attacking Amiga Inc. and there is no evident research behind it.

Still, in my opinion, it is true that the intent platform has a great potential that is being misused by Amiga and Tao themselves and the original idea of replacing the classic OS by the DE still would be the way to go if the platform is to attract the average "Joe" into the platform, but that's probably not the plan anymore.

[THEONE]

I’ll buy OS 4 and the Amiga One when they are available together, I will continue to support Amiga by purchasing whatever they produce. I’m still very loyal to the Amiga, just frustrated by Amiga Inc.

see as how i did post and give Bill the proof that AmgiaOne is my trademark name I know you will be waiting a long time.

ther is no reason to sue as ther will be no money after Bill buck, and the other companies including microsoft ,yep thats right microsoft,get thru suing them.  Oh by the way both of the things suck one a dos shell on top of a shell the other a older pc dam sucks . :-D  :-D

[JetRacer]

I have to agree with other saying this is a bad "article". Commentary is probably more like it.

Secondly, I have to point out that the C language virtually died when software/hardware layers became standard in OS's. There's simply no reason left for using C to create applications. Unfortunately there are no viable options to the
aging C language yet.

And don't try to tell anyone that C is fast. To reach real-time performance the name of the game is assembler. That never changes. All highlevel
languages relys on it.

Tao's intent got cutting edge technology available today. But it's no OS; just bare bones
kernel. AOS got most stuff except cutting edge
kernel technology. It makes good sense to merge
them.

But apart from that, I just see problems pile up.
It's not practical (and probably impossible) to
license Tao's stuff from now until forever. Amiga
Inc will have to point out exactly what role Tao
will have in the future, if any, in order to make
the Amiga community believe in a future beyond
AOS 4.X.

In any case, making future AOS stand and fall
with Tao's kernel support will be a fatal
mistake.

[meerschaum]

edited by (me) ... a bit to harsh  :-D

[Waccoon]

And don't try to tell anyone that C is fast. To reach real-time performance the name of the game is assembler. That never changes. All highlevel
languages relys on it.

I can't imagine programming anything in assembler, anymore, except for minor optimizations.  It takes too long, and assembler on newer CPUs is more complicated.  A lot of amateur programmers get chewed out pretty quick for making their code too slick.  Group projects in assembler sounds like a nightmare to me.

I don't understand why people insist on using one universal language.  Write your scripts in Perl, your network framework in Java, your apps in C, and your optimizations in assembler.  What's with the "C/C++ sux" arguments?  You use what works.

Why can't C handle realtime performance?  Or by "realtime", do you actually mean, "as screaming fast as possible"?  Realtime work just means the code can run continuously without missing input.  You certainly don't need assembler for that, just good multitasking.

It's not practical (and probably impossible) to
license Tao's stuff from now until forever.

How many people here believe that Tao owns a big piece of Amiga Inc.?  I don't know what to believe, anymore, but Mr. Bill sure doesn't hold the deed.

In fact, how many people believe that the core of any OS or major application is under 100% ownership of the developers?  Even Microsoft licenses (not just buys) 3rd party tools to make up major parts of their OS.  You can't do everything yourself these days.  Relying on 3rd party tools is a fact of life.

In business, all that matters is that you make money, and your customers have a damn good reason to give it to you.  Oh yeah, and you're not stupid enough to sign the dotted line without reading the fine print.   ;-)

[Ohno]

Realtime work just means the code can run continuously without missing input.

Well.. actually realtime means you'll get a response within an absolutely guarantied amount of time. That time could just as well be half a day. So theoretically realtime doesn't even have to be fast.

And I think it's sad to see an article appear which is so flawed it's obvious the writer only wants to take a stab at Amiga Inc.

Amiga-Anywhere is running on multiple devices. Several PDA's and some phones already. There are some games out there which are a lot of fun to play and more are coming.

There is indeed no killer-app, but that was not really the idea behind it. We don't need to attract people to another platform, we want people to be able to play content on whatever platform they would like. The fact that Amiga-Anywhere is running underneath shouldn't even be noticable in the end.

Regards,

Onno