Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards  (Read 11942 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Seehund

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1230
    • Show only replies by Seehund
    • http://AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk/
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #44 from previous page: March 10, 2003, 02:48:58 PM »
> see here for a very good reason as to the delays.

It's already common knowledge that the firmware wasn't ready, in spite of what's been announced by others than TSS and Mai. There are no actual delays per se. The boards are simply not done and shipping in volume yet, again despite what's been announced by others than TSS and Mai. The quite natural "breaking" of totally unrealistic and unfounded "release dates" announced by a distributor without any control over the product does not equal delays. It's a natural process. :) (There was a recent thread about "spoiling" here and on Moo Bunny)
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......
 

Offline jtsiren

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2002
  • Posts: 46
    • Show only replies by jtsiren
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2003, 03:12:48 PM »
Quote
Are you saying that you are okay with the fact that EVERY AmigaOne owner including those who have zero intrest in YDL would be required to pay extra on the off chance he may want to run YDL one day?

That's why I call it a Linux tax.


I think I have to agree with Ben here, but also with Seehund on the difference between this situation and the OS4 hardware policy.

I agree with Ben in that:

If indeed TSS wants Mai to pay $20 for each Teron sold (since it can run YDL), I would call that Linux tax. The consumer will be paying for the potential (unlike in the case of firmware which is more likely needed and not reflashed), and some may resent that.

However, whether or not that is okay business-wise depends on the arrangement between Mai and TSS. For Mai, YDL does add value, and one way for Mai to pay TSS for this added value would certainly be to pay royalties. Another would be to pay a substantial one-time development fee and then take that in any case from the board price. (Third would be to expect YDL to do their OS on their own and not pay for it at all - in this case development would not be guaranteed.)

As a comparison, I guess the firmware arrangement with Hyperion falls into the first or second category, even though it is open source work (and as we remember, open source isn't free beer, it is free speech)... And again, nothing wrong with that.

So, in any case, if Mai wants to guarantee YDL on their Teron with some kind of monetary incentive to TSS to add value to Teron, the consumer will pay for that in the price of the board in one way or the other (be that royalties or some one-time fee). The small volume and open source means that separate sales channels (i.e. shrink-wrap) are less likely to provide YDL with such an incentive - and that is what this "tax" probably comes down to...

Does Mai want to pay for a Linux provider to add value to their board?

But yes, sure, I agree with Ben that it is a Linux tax because one way or the other, if Mai wants the deal for sure, (TSS will not work for free, as I'm sure Hyperon would not have made the firmware for free even if one can now download it for free) they may have to pay for it - and eventually the consumer will pay for that.

I'm not sure if this is what Seehund meant as well, but I agree at least with Ben.

I do agree with Seehund on the opinion that this is unlike the OS4 situation though. TSS is not restricting the market for Linux distributions by asking for this "Linux tax", they are only looking for a revenue model to pay for their work.

While this is certainly true for OS4 as well, the difference there is that there are no other AmigaOS 4.0 distributions and the licensing process there will limit the market in a way I believe is damaging to the product by adding an additional obstacle to the existing technical obstacles. There is simply more to the "OS4 tax" issue, than there is to the "Linux tax" issue. The former (if implemented) artificially limits the market while looking for a solid revenue model, while the latter, well, only touches the revenue model.

I believe the argument of limiting markets is an important theme of Seehund's argument and petition. Also, since OS4 is proprietary and could be sold shrink-wrapped better than open source, not all the same arguments apply. Even though piracy is an issue to consider, you will still very likely sell more closed source to a small technically oriented market than you would open source. You can also legally put in a removable dongle (e.g. USB), whereas you cannot really dongle open source software.

It is different for OS4 and YDL for this very reason.
 

Offline JoannaK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2002
  • Posts: 757
    • Show only replies by JoannaK
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2003, 03:16:07 PM »
Hi Ben..

I think we all others *DO* understand. You have just realized now crazy  your own arguments have been during last year.. Eyetech is selling this very same Linux board in Europe with extra 300$ price cause of Amiga-tax you have innovated ... So just pay part of it to Terrasoft and be happy what you get from each system sold.
 

Offline dammy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 2828
    • Show only replies by dammy
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2003, 03:25:26 PM »
Poster: WarPiper Date: 2003/3/9 17:16:22

Quote
like I said..... ....

x86!!!!

there are no Guarantee's with out it!


There is a X86 Amiga related OS out there, it's called AROS.

Dammy
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Seehund

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1230
    • Show only replies by Seehund
    • http://AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk/
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2003, 04:04:34 PM »
Quote

I think you don't fully understand.

Are you saying that you are okay with the fact that EVERY AmigaOne owner including those who have zero intrest in YDL would be required to pay extra on the off chance he may want to run YDL one day?


It does indeed seem like I don't fully understand exactly what you're trying to say... Exactly what is the situation here? When you say "every Teron capable of running YDL" (i.e. every Teron, regardless of distributor) includes the price for a full supported copy of YDL, then Mai must have chosen YDL as "the Teron distro", no matter if a distributor down the chain decides against including YDL for that distributor's customers, right? This is nothing that TSS can have introduced on "their own" and enforce on every distributor. Mai can't have been coerced by TSS, market pressure or anything else to do this.

That, or that TSS have bought the exclusive rights to produce Terons from Mai, can really be the only logical explanation.

No, I don't think it's ideal, the best thing would obviously have been options for which OS/distro you want to have bundled, if any. But I don't see why I should start seeing "bad guys" here. The Terons were always "Linux boards" to a certain extent, and now the hardware manufacturer has chosen (again, if you please could clarify on that bit) another "standard" distro than the previous Turbo Linux to ship with their boards.  If each board used to be sold with the right to a full copy of Turbo Linux, included or not by distributors, then there already was a "Linux tax".

Compared to the market control of third party hardware vendors allowed to sell hardware to AmigaOS users, this is nothing. IMO, there surely are worse things to be upset about for AmigaOS users than having to pay max $30 extra for a motherboard and an OS you might not be interested in ($30 is  the lowest price for retail YDL copies, I imagine OEM prices being far lower. Do you have any precise figures? TSS listed the Teron PX at $500, including YDL and with a "flexibility margin" of +/- $50 ). With no more Amiga hardware being made, we (users, you, Eyetech, AInc) don't really have much say in the matter of hardware anyway.
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......
 

Offline DaveP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2116
    • Show only replies by DaveP
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2003, 04:11:28 PM »
No Joanna, I think you are wrong.

In this case it seems that Terrasoft wants to
tax all boards that are capable of running YDL ( with their
contributions of course ) that are resold through OTHER
vendors regardless of whether or not that board ships
with YDL.

In the Amiga case the "Amiga Certification Scheme" would only be applied
if that board was to be sold as an Amiga.

One you get a choice over ( don't sell it as an Amiga ) the
other you do not ( its capable of running YDL therefore it
must be taxed ).

Thats how I read it anyway.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2003, 05:18:51 PM »
You know, the "Terrasoft" tax sounds just like the tactics Microsoft used to such success in the past.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline Argo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 3219
    • Show only replies by Argo
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2003, 06:00:47 PM »
It's a seal, a seadog.
 

Offline Darth_X

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 791
    • Show only replies by Darth_X
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2003, 06:15:27 PM »
@HyperionMP:

Quote
Only people who specifically want AmigaOS will need to pay for it.


How difficult is this to figure out: I want to buy a shrinkwrapped box copy of AmigaOS4 that installed & runs on Pegasos II. Or any available PowerPC based motherboards, maybe even PowerPC Macs too.

The only bad guys are the ones who won't support a free and open Amiga market.
 

Offline Darth_X

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 791
    • Show only replies by Darth_X
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2003, 06:20:57 PM »
By the way, those who want an AmigaOS on x86 should seriously check out AROS.
 

Offline Bandaren

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2002
  • Posts: 20
    • Show only replies by Bandaren
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2003, 06:48:45 PM »
HyperionMP

Do you know if this will be sorted out shortly? (so that amigaone buyers won't pay linux-tax)

Dan Andersson
 

Offline strobe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 885
    • Show only replies by strobe
    • http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:7XQQZXN3cS4C:www.amiga.com/corporate/amigadepartypack.shtml
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2003, 07:40:42 PM »
Isn't it more likely that MAI can't deliver?

Isn't this like a game of musical chairs without the chairs?
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2003, 08:11:28 PM »
@strobe

I just talked with some friends in Terrasoft, supply is not the problem.  Neither are bugs.  They would not go into details, but they were really PO'd.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline JoannaK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2002
  • Posts: 757
    • Show only replies by JoannaK
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2003, 08:33:40 PM »
@DaveP
You forgot one important fact. Eyetect is only distributor of BOTH boards in europe. So Even if you are willing to purchase Linux-only board it comes thru Eyetech and they add their _tax_ into it.
 

Offline MarkTime

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2002
  • Posts: 901
    • Show only replies by MarkTime
    • http://www.tanooshka.com
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2003, 09:33:08 PM »
You know its very hard to feel sorry for a company that wanted to gouge Amiga users for $380 dollars per board, when they themselves are being gouged back for a mere $20.

This is just business.

They don't have to like it, they don't have to sell MAI boards..in fact... I sometimes pay for some things that I don't want to, because these things do happen .  I don't blame Eyetech if they try to figure out something different.  Heck Genesi figured out something different, they just dumped MAI.

Maybe, Eyetech could do the same...oh yes, I forgot, they don't actually have any talent on staff.

Well anyway, if they have to negotiate....just negotiate.  It's not like they developed the product themselves, or had the clout of Terrasoft....so someday....build your own products, build your clout, but in the meantime deal with reality.
 

Offline Ami603

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2002
  • Posts: 180
    • Show only replies by Ami603
Re: Terrasoft shelves MAI Logic motherboards
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2003, 09:56:45 PM »
@MarkTime:
Please,Again.Until you prove this with Real data,just forget this "$380" number,as it cannot be proved to be real yet today.
AmigaOne X1000