Amiga.org welcomes Elbox as an advertiser.

[Paul_Gadd]

Take me to those posts....i`d like to see them!

Cmon man, i dont come on here just to attack everything in sight, i have helped loads of people out with amiga/ non amiga problems, (which the archives should show if this site has any somewhere)

@-D-

Cheers  :pint:

[Nick]

@People

Yes I agree Wayne. People think just cause they`re not face to face with people they can try to hurt
their feelings, and that any trace of decorum, tact or manners can be removed from conversations at
will. People still read this and take it in. They can still be offended by it and take it to heart.
You are still the cause!

Just think about what you say! Believe me it helps. People don`t even shout at you and insult
you. Its weird I know. I`ve even found it possible to speak my mind and not insult people. Life is
about having fun. yelling isn`t much fun for you or anybody else. Especially for other people. I
don`t know how many times I have said this type of thing. It annoys me to death to see such a cool
little community spoilt by such stupidity. If you support the Amiga stay and be jolly, if you don`t
then bugger off. We don`t need you spoiling it. This may be controversial, but I don`t even want MOS
people to go. We are like brothers n sisters in a way. I may not agree totally with what they are
doing, but then thats my opinion. Theres no need to go mad over it. Its only a computer system, it
not life!

Calm down people please!

I`m glad some of you aren`t judges. If you convicted a person for assault, from then on everytime
somebody is even accused of assault you would give them jail time without a trial if you could. Not
good justice.

Anyway I`ve rambled enough now.

[JoannaK]

NIck et all

IMHO we must take realities in front of our eyes. What companies there ARE left anymore? Who on earth  would even consider adwertising on Amiga releated Website?

AmigaInc is deeply in Red, they can't even manage  their existing promices. Hyperion and Eyetech are under heawy burden due this development process. Can't really expect them so spend $$$ they need for developement effort to Adwertising here.  

Some Game makers are active, but their latest releases have been to MOS (like epic) so thay are not wished welcome here. Genesi is spending money on BIG targets (like CES and Cebits) and they are not too liked here either.

After those.. Few well-known Resellers.. Couple smaller HW and SW  manufacuters and ... Elbox.  Like them or not but they are one of the few firms left that have products..

[MarkTime]

I agree, by becoming an advertiser Elbox did something positive, in my book, and my opinion of them is much higher now.  I am sure that was the intent, and thats OK, it worked because it should work, we like people supporting the site.

And I think the AWD style, 'welcome' to this advertiser was a good thing.

And NOOOO, I don't care what anyone's momma's told them, we do not have to have consensus at all times in order for plans to work.  Paul Gadd's comment were great and they didn't ruin anything.

I don't agree with Paul, though I am glad he expressed his opinion.  Elbox did remove the RDB thrashing code, they did not apologize, but good grief, they removed the code, thats about as good as you get these days.

Now by becoming a supporter of amiga.org they have done a lot to rehabilitate themselves.

Of course, they release a G3 or G4 accelerator and they are not only rehabilitated, but I will personally give them a kiss on the mouth.

eewwwwwwwwww who said that.
 :-P

If we are not allowed to criticize advertisers, then either I am going to have to hope a crook never advertises here, or advertise myself, not sure which./
 :-o

[Damion]

Let's just hope Merlancia never advertises here,
sheesh. :-) No, seriously it's a positive thing.
Now if both OS4 and MOS run on the Sharks I may
even perk up a bit more...

[MarkTime]

@JoannaK

remind me to never make you my salesperson.

The companies you mentioned as being unlikely to advertise, a) do advertise on other sites, and b) have the most reason to advertise.

But there are at least 10 other companies that either have, or will advertise soon, that you didn't mention at all.

Amiga Inc hosts this site for free.  Wayne once said he would need $300/month to cover the bandwidth of this site.  Well, that makes Amiga, Inc. the largest benefactor of this site, probably of any Amiga site, for that matter.

But the other you mentioned, Genesi who is 'hitting' large targets...advertises all over the Amiga Web, and this site is one of the largest/most influential sites, this is exactly the market they should target.  Not saying they will, but under the right circumstances, why not....I've seen their advertisements on amiga.org.ru, why not the real, much bigger amiga.org?

Software companies, like Cloanto advertise all the time.  Anyone who has a new product to sell, would do well to advertise, whether that is Hyperion, H&P, or even many of the up and coming games people, even morphos games.

The retailers, of course, they need to advertise...and they have in the past, softhut used to advertise, compu-quick the same....and many european companies did and still do advertise....

This site, as it continues to grow, and as these retailers begin to have products to sell....regardless of whether its a pegasos or amiga-one, as they have a need to sell products to people who are readers here......

now with all that said, it is bleak, it is hard, the market is very small...its just not necessary to go overboard the other way...I could easily see someone getting 10 advertisers...well wayne already has 2, so he already has the Maximum amount everyone was predicting in a thread at new years....one more and he has defied all the critics.

[Loki1]

Do not come into my house insulting my guests..

Last I heard Amiga Inc hosts this site.  Are you paying them for this service?  If you are not paying them then it is the same as them paying you!

Why do you trash them all the time and allow everyone else to?

Loki :-?

[Lo]

:lol:  :lol:  :roflmao:  :smack:

[createcoms]

This financial contribution to amiga.org and essentially the community does not, in any way justify or defend their actions regarding the RDB issue.  It does not induce additional levels of trust in relevance to their driver software and has not deterred my development of a supervisor wrapper for their software to ensure that such malicious actions cannot be triggered by anything ELBOX.

However this financial contribution does prove that although ELBOX sux when it comes to business decisions they do still have a heart and a willingness to support worthy causes.

[Damion]

@Loki1

A little constructive criticism and "trashing" are
hardly the same thing. It's a tribute to Wayne's
patience and good judgement that so many conflicting
viewpoints can all coexist here.

[Piru]

@Wayne

> AmigaOS has code to thrash rdb's

No it does not.

AmigaOS contain code to write RDB to disk. This code is inside HDToolBox and is only triggered after you click Save and click Ok to some "Are you sure?" -requester.
This code does not trash RDB. And no, format command does not trash RDB either. Low level format is ignored by modern drives, too.

The routine inside Elbox drivers, if triggered, located and delirebately trashed RDB of the system disk.

[Nick]

I`m sure Elbox didn`t do it on purpose and as people have said nobody has managed to trigger this bit of code into life. Its not worth stressing about. They removed it, isn`t that good enough? They are now supporting this site so its almost like a way of saying sorry.

[System]

To wayne:
I have been a long time reader of amiga.org
I like to step in and read the latest news and also the comments from people in the community. I have never registered before because i have never felt the urge to step in with my own comments. But this time i did.
For me your comments felt a little like "Elbox is paying so people should keep silent with critisising". If i read amiga.org I dont want it to be cencored. People should be able to say exactly the same thing about companies that contribute with money as about companys that does not. People can write bad things that needs to be corrected, removed or in some cases the users could even be banned from the site because of bad behaviour. But the comments should not be judged ANY differently because they are critisising Elbox who contributes with money. They get goodwill from paying. That should be enough.
Ofcource its your site. You decide the rules. But for me as a frequent reader of amiga.org the joy of reading the comments would be less if this is the amiga.org policy.

Otherwise, thanks for a good site.

[Madgun68]

Anyone not familiar with what happened can read the letter Elbox posted about it here: Elbox letter

Personally, I've used the drivers mentioned with my Amiga for the past year, and I've not once had a problem with this or heard of it happening to anyone else. I wouldn't doubt that the drivers for my Powerflyer have/had similar code. If this was such a serious issue, considering how many times I've crashed the machine with my stupid programming tricks, you'd think I'd have seen it at least once.

Do I think Elbox had a right to protect their software? YES
Do I think Elbox chose the best method of doing so? NO
Do I think that this issue has been blown way out of scope and is now being used as a pesonal vendetta against the company by a few individuals? YES

[System]

But the other you mentioned, Genesi who is 'hitting' large targets...advertises all over the Amiga Web, and this site is one of the largest/most influential sites, this is exactly the market they should target. Not saying they will, but under the right circumstances, why not....I've seen their advertisements on amiga.org.ru, why not the real, much bigger amiga.org?

@Marktime

This is where you are wrong.  Bill Buck is very much indeed interested in advertising here on the site and has asked on several occassions.  That being said, I have had no choice but to politely refuse in the case of Genesi.   I had no choice in this matter because it is a direct conflict of interest for me to sell banner advertisements to a company which is directly competing with the company providing the hosting for the site.  

In effect, if I took their assistance (which we always need), I would be using Amiga Inc's assistance to advertise for Genesi.  As I said, I direct conflict of interest.  There were other offers made that I cannot discuss, but neither Bill Buck nor McEwen are the bad guys here.

You might note that there is no Amiga Inc advertisement here which even I find weird.  Because of their involvement in providing the bandwidth, Amiga Inc have an offer for a standing advertisement on this site.  When we changed banner format, I wrote several people including Ray, Gary, and even Bill asking for a new banner and have never received one.

[redrumloa]

@Andreas_Nyback

No one is being censored. Amiga.org is not "bought". Amiga.org does not have a "stance on Elbox". Simply said this news item is that Elbox is a paid advertiser. This in and of itself is good news to ANYONE who finds Amiga.org useful. Amiga.org is a community website and any company who puts it's advertising dollars here contributing to the long term health of this site and are giving a boost to the community as a whole. I am not saying that was the motive, I'm sure their motive is to generate revenue through advertising. I hope it works out well for all parties involved.

As for censorship, before you go that route and critise not only Wayne, but myself and every other registered A-Org user, check the archives on this site. You will see plenty of heating discussions about Elbox. Nothing has ever been censored, nor will it be. You just don't kick someone in the teeth when they do something positive.