Pictures and News from AmiGBG Fall Event

[SlimJim]

You mean "modify" or "add to", not "create" right? Or is this a completely new firmware only based on PPCBoot (in which case there should be no doubt that it's all governed by the GPL?)?

 
This I do not know. You have to ask Ben Hermans about the fine details.
 

I have no idea what an x86 emulator has to do with PPCBoot or any firmware. With the "Frieden Feature" alliteration I was referring to "PPCboot apparantly contains some pretty nifty features by the Frieden brothers"

 
The x86 emulator is a clever way of allowing graphics cards with x86 BIOS to initiate even when there isn't any native PPC support (once again, as I understood it).
.
SlimJim

[Juzz]

Seehund were you at the Pegasos event?

[CodeSmith]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just *how* are those "Frieden Features" applied to PPCBoot? I'm wondering since PPCBoot is a GPL project...

If the PPCBoot they are using is indeed the GPL version, they only have to release the source when they start selling the boards, so it will be a few weeks before we can play with it (I *like* the fact that I'll be able to monkey with the BIOS :-D).  Since they're still in the process of beta-testing, I'd rather wait until they're happy with it before I start looking at it.  I'm personally curious to see if they only implemented the cpu's 'real mode' (8086-80286) or 'protected mode' (80386-), and which other parts of a PC's hardware they wrote in as well.

Edit:
The reason I'm curious is because *all* PCs, even mighty P-4's, start off in 8086-compatibility mode when reset - you have to enable all the advanced (post-286) stuff by writing into a CPU register.  So it's possible that you only need 8086 mode to init the graphics card...

[hnl_dk]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just *how* are those "Frieden Features" applied to PPCBoot? I'm wondering since PPCBoot is a GPL project...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If the PPCBoot they are using is indeed the GPL version, they only have to release the source when they start selling the boards, so it will be a few weeks before we can play with it (I *like* the fact that I'll be able to monkey with the BIOS ). Since they're still in the process of beta-testing, I'd rather wait until they're happy with it before I start looking at it. I'm personally curious to see if they only implemented the cpu's 'real mode' (8086-80286) or 'protected mode' (80386-), and which other parts of a PC's hardware they wrote in as well.

Edit:
The reason I'm curious is because *all* PCs, even mighty P-4's, start off in 8086-compatibility mode when reset - you have to enable all the advanced (post-286) stuff by writing into a CPU register. So it's possible that you only need 8086 mode to init the graphics card...

I think MAI has bought a licence for the BIOS, so the BIOS Hyperion is making is not under the GPL licence! (if I'm right ;-) )

[olegil]

The reason I'm curious is because *all* PCs, even mighty P-4's, start off in 8086-compatibility mode when reset - you have to enable all the advanced (post-286) stuff by writing into a CPU register. So it's possible that you only need 8086 mode to init the graphics card...

Correct, as far as I see it. Thats the reason it can actually be contained together with the rest of the code in a small flashrom :-)

And to Seehund et al:
You obviously have no clue. Hyperion actually made the firmware by request from MAI. MAI already had an outstanding contract with another company to make ppcboot work on the Teron series. They didn't deliver the goods, so Hyperion took over. After a few days of discussions it apparently turned out that instead of writing a forth interpreter, integrating an existing 8086 emulator into the system would be a lot better. So it was done. The codebase is based on ppcboot 1.1.6, but as someone mentioned, they don't have to give out code to anyone until things are actually released you won't be playing with it yet. And you won't be able to make a ppcboot flashrom that can run amigaos, only Linux. Because the rom on the amigaone will still contain extra code not linked into ppcboot that AOS4 will check for. But you will be able to buy a linux-only board and improve the firmware (if that is even possible, after the Friedens have been there before you :-P ). Be ware that GPL does NOT imply "downloadable from web".

[olegil]

The deluded microscopic minority who actually WANT "new Amigas" need to get their heads examined, they don't need to be marketed to.

Ah. Then I obviously need my head examined. You, sir, are an asshole.

Oh, and a comment to Pegasos bit of that OASE2 report:

together with Linux it could be used for professional server use or in a PDA.

Wow, someone need to stop taking so much growth hormone. A microATX sized PDA wouldn't be VERY comfortable to normal sized humans for long. Especially not considering it's got AGP and a CPU slot for a total depth of about 15 cm...

[CodeSmith]

@Olegil:

Uh, that 'someone' would be me  :-)
I'm not sure of the local netiquette, so when I realized that I'd forgotten to add the last part after I submitted the post, I added "Edit:" at the beginning of the new part.

BTW, the 'GPL does not mean downloadable from the web' comment is completely correct - you only have to supply the source code *to your users* (so they have the freedom to change it, etc).  This means that you only get to see the source if you bought a copy of the binary (or, in this case, a motherboard).  If this were not the case, there'd be no monetary incentive for writing code - all you need is a web browser and a compiler and you don't need to pay for any software!  :-o

This is a common misunderstanding because most people who code GPL programs also make them 'free as in free beer', so they have nothing to lose by just uploading the source to a public server.

[SlimJim]

@CodeSmith

That was the clearest explanation of GPL I've seen. Now even I understand it and why there are so many misinterpretations around it...!
.
SlimJim

[Rogue]

It does not really matter if this is "modified" or "based". Any derivate work from a GPL project is GPL'ed.

Our modifications will of course be GPL'ed, too, and will be available in full accordance to the GPL.

The idea of an x86 emulator in the firmware is that it is considered the firmware's task to initalize the hardware, including graphics cards. I don't think it makes sense to boot with a disabled screen - actually being able to see what is happening (including error messages) is a definitive advantage.

That is all I am going to say about this. If you want to discuss this, contact me privately

[Treke]

Hmm, withdrawn from the public ? :-o
Looks like your tasks on OS4 are finished (? )...

If no, get back to work because we're waiting !   :-x

Just kidding  :-D  :-D

Good luck.  Integrations usually DO suck ....

re

Treke

[Seehund]

olegil:

And to Seehund et al:

Et al? Who am I affiliated with today? :- P

You obviously have no clue. [...]

Huh? Are you talking about something I've written here, or is that merely a general opinion of yours? What in the rest of your comment have I misunderstood or contradicted? I'm not disagreeing with anything you write there!

Ah. Then I obviously need my head examined. You, sir, are an asshole.

I'll disregard the insult, since you obviously misunderstood me, at least I hope so. I thought you actually wanted that "AmigaOne" board you bought, not a "new Amiga". No need to make an appointment with the shrink.

I still think that if someone is yearning for a proprietary, custom piece of hardware like a "new Amiga", designed for one OS and vice versa, under the current circumstances, instead of the currently planned  AmigaOS + third-party hardware path (including things like the Terons/AmigaOnes and whatnot) should consider undergoing a psychiatric examination.
If a Megacorp like Sony, IBM or so buys the Amiga Inc. bankruptsy estate , then maybe discussing "new Amigas" could make some sense.

Too damn bad that the chosen path includes removing the advantages of using third-party hardware though...

A microATX sized PDA wouldn't be VERY comfortable to normal sized humans for long.

LOL, yeah, I caught that passage too. BTW, when I think of a "PDA" (personal digital assistant) I visualise a drool-proof electronic box to be mounted under an electric wheelchair... That would work with a microATX board.

[Seehund]

Rogue:

It does not really matter if this is "modified" or "based". Any derivate work from a GPL project is GPL'ed.

Our modifications will of course be GPL'ed, too, and will be available in full accordance to the GPL.

Concise, civil and answering the original question. Thanks!

[Seehund]

Juzz:

Seehund were you at the Pegasos event?

Nope. Wasted the entire weekend at the book fair.

Anyway, personally I'm satisfied with judging the price and features of a piece of hardware from a piece of paper or a web page, I don't have to touch/smell/taste it. So since neither AmigaOS nor MorphOS were to be demoed in their final release versions I'd rather go and mingle/drink with The Cultural Elite and buy cheap books and comics.

[Casper]

OMG!!!! Robert De Niro was there!!!
See the photo of him here.
 :-o  :-D

[Coder]

Can we expect some audio files or video files soon from the show?

Coder

[olegil]

OMG!!!! Robert De Niro was there!!! See the photo of him here.

Seems you're right. That was one scary picture of Alan :-)