AmigaOS petition update

[HeUnique]

Kronos dear,

May I point you to Bill's latest executive update and I quote: "With regards to OS 4.0, you may purchase this product separately from the AmigaOne, and it can be loaded and used on other Amiga PPC products and systems and are certified for OS 4.0."

As for the certification stuff - I run Office 2000 under Linux on my X86 using CrossOver office. Has it been certified by MS to run on this configuration? nope, but it runs - same thing with AOS 4.0 - you can buy it, but they're not responsible if it will run on unsupported hardware.

As for the hardware that AOS can be running - I qoute: "OS 4.0 will run on other PPC products besides the AmigaOne, like the CyberStorm and Blizzard PPC accelerator cards. That's because you, the members of The Community, with many and varied needs, wanted this support."

Got that?

Hetz Ben Hamo

[System]

Seehund, one thing that bothers me about you, is that you pretend to do something for the sake of AmigaOS. While in fact you try to destroy the reputation of the Amiga community, Amiga Inc and partners. You clearly demonstrated this with your: Proud Amiga Tradition: "Death By Mismanagement" article on OSNews.com Why else would you like to spread such an article on a general tech related website?

Personally I believe you want to weaken our oppertunity to enable a competitor to offer more competition. I believe your FUD only helps weaken the outlook for everyone within the Amiga community!

[Seehund]

MikeB:

Allow me to cut'n'paste my reply to a similar post of yours on ANN:

 Although admittedly a harsh wording of a headline, there's nothing FUD about it. The article wasn't demoting any product, only pointing out the flaws in the business decisions behind its future distribution, and I'm no competitor trying to promote my own product by doing so. "I am an independent AmigaOS fan and a member of the Amiga community." [As you described yourself on ANN.]
The product AmigaOS != Amiga Inc's corporate planning.

Once again: The product AmigaOS != Amiga Inc's corporate planning. The merits of AmigaOS are not those of the company named Amiga Inc. and the business decisions made in Snoqualmie, and vice versa.

A computer/software user community is not defined by the opinions on any corporate decisions that each individual in the community might have. I doubt that many people would willingly want to be part of such a "community". That wouldn't be a community, that would be a dogmatic sect founded on homogenicity by brain-washing.

"I am Amiga" indeed. :-P

Personally I believe you want to weaken our oppertunity to enable a competitor to offer more competition.

:-D
If you weren't joking, that's plain ridiculous.

Also, "we"/"our" != the commercial entity Amiga Incorporated (or any other company for that matter).

[Seehund]

HeUnique:

many of the slashdot authors refuse to post stories about Amiga until some stuff will be out..

LOL! In that case the Boing-ball wouldn't have been seen on the Slashdot frontpage since OS 3.9 was released.

so you cannot say we ignore the Amiga.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm merely wondering why most of the later Amiga stories have been either about having a laugh at  vapourware or uncritical forwarding of transparent marketing material, like all the silliness lately about "new Amiga hardware". It's not surprising that  your readers bitch about vapourware and "let it die already" when they're only fed stuff like that. FYI, AmigaOS is supposed to be running on third party hardware, which unfortunately has to be distributed by licensed vendors only. There aren't and most likely will never be any plans, designs, specifications, manufacturing or sales of any hardware specifically made for AmigaOS. (And unless someone with resources like Sony or nVidia buys the Amiga trademarks, releases a cheap killer machine once again revolutionising personal computing and KEEPS it ahead of the rest, I doubt that many people actually would want a custom made "Amiga".)

[Seehund]

HeUnique:

As for the certification stuff - I run Office 2000 under Linux on my X86 using CrossOver office. Has it been certified by MS to run on this configuration? nope, but it runs - same thing with AOS 4.0 - you can buy it, but they're not responsible if it will run on unsupported hardware.

Micros~1 haven't built in any code in Office that checks for hardware-license verification means in your machine. AmigaOS will be restricted to hardware that is tainted with such a mechanism.
If it weren't, then you just described what we're yearning for - sell the OS bundled with certified/licensed hardware, but for chrissake sell it separately for users to install on "unlicensed" hardware of our choice as well! We're mostly geeks, remember? Let us decide if we want the "protection" of Amiga Inc. when it comes to our hardware choices.

"OS 4.0 will run on other PPC products besides the AmigaOne, like the CyberStorm and Blizzard PPC accelerator cards. That's because you, the members of The Community, with many and varied needs, wanted this support."

Who gives a crap about ancient hacks on ancient machines? Well, many give a crap (including me ), but that stuff is totally irrelevant to a future for AmigaOS. And why is there apparently no need at all for any copy-protection whatsoever when the hardware isn't for sale by Eyetech?

Over 700 members of the community and newcomers publicly say they want to have the option to buy AmigaOS separately and buy whatever hardware they want from whomever they want.  The way things look today, that appears to be a significant amount of potential customers for Amiga Inc.

[Seehund]

We did posted Amiga stories. Some examples:

BTW, don't forget the latest embarrassing "news" item about "Linux on POP board runs Mac-On-Linux! Whoop Whoop!" (but it was described as "New Amiga Hardware Runs Mac OS" :-D )

Now what was the purpose of that?

[CyberViking2000]

I used to think that nothing in this world should be nuked, and then I saw this petition. :-D
Bad petition! Baaad petition!! :hammer:

[createcoms]

I think if you do a WHOIS on the ip of the petition organiser you'll see it's located at an american mental ward.


This is my indirect way of saying how much I think this Petition sux.

GO AMIGA INC !!!!!!  GREAT JOB ATM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

[Seehund]

createcoms:

I think if you do a WHOIS on the ip of the petition organiser you'll see it's located at an american mental ward.

y00 = da funney man111!!1!!

:-P

193.11.228.9

h4xx0r away.
plz fix k thx.

This is my indirect way of saying how much I think this Petition sux.

Oh. For a minute I almost thought you were talking about the petition organiser. Silly me. I guess I shouldn't ask about  your feelings about all the people who endorse it, or even ask why you think it "sux".

[Argo]

Hey, It's HOT enough outside. Could we please not flame....

[Kronos]

@HeUnique
Question:
If I were on of the lucky few that have a Pegasos now, would I ever
be allowed to run OS4 on it, even if bPlan sends a board to Hyperion ?

Current politics say NO !!

Even if bPlan had a licence, I still wouldn't buy the dongled version because:

It would be only available after the initial port is finished.
Or it would be the same deal like the A1-dev: "Buy HW now , MUST buy OS4
later " and I never buy anything I haven't seen/tested before.

Therefore I won't be able to run OS4.

No I haven't signed the petition, because I don't believe AInc have enough
common sense to understand what those who signed want.
If AInc/Hyperion insist that I'm not good enough to buy their SW .....
well who am I to argue  ;-)

About /.
I'm really sick and tired of all these "Hyped-vapor" article I see all
over the place, and I think they are the main reason why most of your
readers tend to disbelieve everything with an Amiga-connection.

The latest OSNews-article was on of the worsts examples:
Lots of wishful thinking, (allmost) no hard facts.
Yes I know the reactions on the side were somewhat positiv, but
what will those people think when they recheck in a month or two and
find out that there still isn't anything available ?
What will they think when the next "article" is written next year, but
still nothing available ? (I would be more than suprised if OS/ A1 cames this year)
Some may even remember last years "will be there this summer", "will be there
in October","buy Party-Pack now" stuff and just say "forget it I'll get a Mac"

[ShadesOfGrey]

:-o
Before anybody starts...  I'm not slamming MorphOS!  I don't really know all that much about MorphOS.  I don't have any interest in learning more unless Amiga OS 4 should fail.  I am also not a member of the 'cult-of-the-name' or whatever.  The fact that I support Amiga Inc.'s efforts does not mean I believe the people running the AI show can turn water into wine (I'm an atheist BTW, I only use 'biblical' references to illustrate my point).  There are, I am sure, MorphOS supporters out there who do not believe Ralph Schmidt (or any of the other former phase 5 employees working on MorphOS) can walk on water.  

I'm posing a hypothetical argument using some very big assumptions based on what I currently know about the MorphOS project.  I could be right about these assumptions, but I could also be very wrong.  It's the question that is important here and not necessarily the assumptions or implications supporting it.
 :-o  

Incidentally, when are you going to set up the same petition for MorphOS? So far it looks as if it will 'only' run on PPC accelerator cards and the one motherboard designed specifically to run that OS (I deduce this from the screenshots showing the words 'Pegasos BIOS extensions' in the OF screenshots from that recent demo.

anarchic_teapot raises an interesting question about the validity of Seehund's petition with regards to the "abolishment of the compulsory dongling/bundling/licensing".

AFAIK bPlan have not announced any licensing terms, OEM or retail.  But it could be inferred, due to no solid information to the contrary, that the MOS crew intend MOS to run on legacy PPC accelerators and a 'proprietary' POP based PPC motherboard.  

Q: Will MorphOS support any other hardware?
 A: MorphOS is open to any new platform or hardware. To have support it
    requires complete specs of the hardware to port the low level
    hardware code.

I can see the "low level hardware code" as being a dongle.  No less than that of the A1's BIOS extension.  And if anarchic_teapot's observation about "Pegasos BIOS extensions" are true.  This to me could further imply pBlan are no more 'open' than Amiga Inc.

IF that were true.   Would the petition be changed to include the bPlan/MorphOS combination?

[Kronos]

AFAIK the bPlan-BIOS-extensions only include FFS-support at boot-up
and the possibility to boot from a "disk_on_chip".

[Hammer]

@Seehund

There's nothing wrong with certification.

Let’s take an example of a mainstream x86 motherboard manufacture with certification logos (my current x86 motherboard manufacture).  

MSI example

MSI’s certification includes
1. nVidia Certified
2. MS Windows XP Certified
3. Linux Tested Certified
4. MS Windows Certified
5. ISO 14001 Certified
6. ISO 9001 Certified

Since Bill McEwen. was from Gateway, He may follow industry standard practises.
Refer
http://www.gateway.com/work/gov/resources/certs.shtml

Example of lack certification.

Apparently, my old Lucktech mobo (intel ZX440/100 chipset based) doesn’t have nVidia certification thus it doesn’t work with my old TNT2 card at X2 AGP mode (causes a driver stall while doing 3Dstuff).
(It's power brick is rated at 250 Watts.)

It also failed to run with my old Geforce 2 at X2 AGP mode (i.e. causes a stall while doing 3D stuff).

I haven’t tried it with my newer Geforce 3 128DDR...

[bhoggett]

There's nothing wrong with certification.

I go along with Hammer. Certification is good.

However, this isn't about certification as such. It's not even about copy-protection via the dongle. What it is about is the licensing condition that means you can't sell AOS4 separately from the hardware (with the express exceptions of the Phase5/DCE PPC boards and the A1-dev board). This licensing condition has no other purpose except to control the market and thus ensure that there is protection from competition for favoured parties.

Having said that, I'm still against the petition. I think it's pointless and counter-productive, and the only way to get bad decisions changed is to vote with the wallet.

(I think I said that before...   :-P )

[zudobug]

Hi,

IMO, if Amiga Inc. relied on the community to make their decisions for them, nothing would ever get done.  Right now everyone would still be passionately arguing their conflicted opinions and refusing to hear anyone elses side.  There would be no AmigaDE and no AmigaOne/OS4 in the pipeline.  Actually, Amiga Inc. would probably of thrown in the towel by now and left us to it.

They are a small company, this is a small community.  Everyone is suffering from the same desire to see the Amiga back at the top... Especially the guys at Amiga Inc.  Let them do things the way they want, because hey, they're gonna anyway.  There simply isn't time to listen to the ranting and raving of people that hate them for having a go.  And they haven't got the funds/resources to please everyone.

Apologies to anyone who doesn't like what I've said.

-zudo