AmigaOS petition update

[Crispy_Beef]

The OS4-version that will be available seperatly will ONLY run on the
old Phase5-card, and thats what the whole petition is about.

Well technically that's not entirely true.  It could also run on the Shark if they they pulled their finger out and sent Hyperion some hardware to work with.  Same goes for Pegasos too.

[Seehund]

In what way is the Amiga-enabling ROM a limitation on the hardware?

Hardware X: This can be sold to anyone, regardless of OS. It doesn't come with any OS bundled, it doesn't license any software company's trademarks, it doesn't have any hardware license verification mechanism (in marketing a.k.a. "anti-piracy measures" or "Amiga-enabling ROM").

Hardware X, but in its licensed (per)version: This has to be sold bundled with AmigaOS after having been modified in "any way which the vendor chooses" (to paraphrase Ben Hermans attempt at "clarification") and after the vendor has become an Amiga Inc. licensee. Of course this also has to be more expensive than the same hardware in its normal shape, due to the licensing process and the following limited market size.

Which board is limited in the eyes of the consumer who doesn't give a crap about AmigaOS? And why shouldn't he have the possibility to buy AmigaOS separately to install on his hardware if he so chooses at a later time? Is his money less worth to Amiga Inc. because he cares more about the capabilities and price of his hardware than what comes bundled with it at the time of purchase?

The very essence of all this is that the hardware market for AmigaOS users is unnecessarily (as in: for no technical reasons) limited.

Are you saying that an abolishment of the compulsory dongling/bundling/licensing idea would be any more limiting?

Unless you can successfully answer this question with only hard facts and logical reasoning, you are going to be written off as an Idiot by many who up to now merely considered you a bit thoughtless.

That's alright, you should be used to insulting me by now...

Remember, you are speaking to someone currently running Linux on the AmigaOne with the ROM already in place.

Oh really!? Well, I have a black bicycle with red stripes!! So what? :-P

[Kronos]

@Crispy_Beef
Please reread the ExecUP on this !!

OS4 will ONLY be sold bundled with the HW !!

The P5-cards, and the A1-dev are the only execptions to this rule !

[Seehund]

HeUnique wrote:

It is quite unfortunate that someone is doing such a "petition" without trying to understand Amiga's position quite well (or so the petition author seems to mis-understand).

Why the quotation marks?

By allowing anyone under the sun to ship boards with Amiga OS without any qualifications - you'll get tons of nightmares in terms of support.

But once again, that's not at all what this is about! Of course someone wanting to sell his h/w bundled with AmigaOS or use an Amiga trademark should have to get a license!
It's about allowing "anyone under the sun" to sell their hardware just as they've always done not bothering about what OS the end user uses. It's about selling AmigaOS separately from hardware for the end-user to install on any compatible hardware he likes from whomever he chooses (and it's of course up to AI/Hyperion to make the OS compatible with as much h/w as possible and announce this hardware in a HCL, it's not up to anyone  else) or to nail to the wall as decoration if that's what the end user prefers!

Lets not forget one more thing - if Amiga will start selling AOS 4.0 with the plug to anyone - then maybe 50 people will buy - and the rest will copy it! I really don't think that it will be that hard to hack AOS 4.0 to work without the Amiga Inc's special ROM - so 50 will buy it, and 5000 people will copy it.

Which is exactly why the official "anti-piracy" argument is totally bogus. There's no need for the hardware vendor to provide somebody else's software protection, it'll be cracked anyway, all it does is restricting the hardware market for AmigaOS, making it a shunned curiosity, "that OS which only runs on perverted hardware". A USB dongle or whatever delivered in a separately sold AmigaOS carton would be just as good/bad protection, but it wouldn't affect our hardware choice and the market of hardware vendors.
Also, AmigaOS will actually be sold separately but only for ancient PPC accelerators for Amiga computers. How come there's no need to protect that software from piracy at all?

I really hope that Amiga Inc. will start selling AOS 4.0 soon

They won't. You'll have to buy it bundled with licensed and modified third party hardware from licensed vendors.

HeUnique eh, are you the one who rejected all stories people say they've submitted about this to /., while publishing nonsense stories about "new Amiga computers" and free pre-order/coupon/membership advertising?

[Crispy_Beef]

@Kronos

This is from the latest Exec. Update, direct quote including typo:

"With regards to OS 4.0, you may purchase this product separately from the AmigaOne, and it can be loaded and used on other Amiga PPC products and systems and are certified for OS 4.0"

So I think that's that  then.   :-P

[edit]
Oops, not quite.  They clarify at the end of it too:

AmigaOS 4.0 will run on the AmigaOne and other Amiga PPC certified products...     :-P
[/edit]

[anarchic_teapot]

Seehund, bidding for the Tim Rue Award, wrote:

Hardware X, but in its licensed (per)version: This has to be sold bundled with AmigaOS after having been modified in "any way which the vendor chooses" (to paraphrase Ben Hermans attempt at "clarification") and after the vendor has become an Amiga Inc. licensee. Of course this also has to be more expensive than the same hardware in its normal shape, due to the licensing process and the following limited market size.

You're doing it again. You assume that if the hardware has an Amiga ROM it can only be sold to Amiga users. Apparently you also seem to think that the licensing process also increases the price of the board by a significant amount. I wonder how much

Which board is limited in the eyes of the consumer who doesn't give a crap about AmigaOS?

BEEEEPPPP! Stop right there. Who mentioned the consumer? You stated that the material was limited, not that it might be perceived as limited. Incidentally, it will only be perceived as limited if the potential purchaser can't run the software he wants on it. This has nothing to do with the OS bundled with the board. Especially at the price of the damn OS. We're not talking Microsoft pricing here, you know.

Are you saying that an abolishment of the compulsory dongling/bundling/licensing idea would be any more limiting?

WTF did you get that from? You're the one that wants the - pretty minor - copy protection scheme abolished. Abolition of any form of copy protection would lead to two things: widespread casual software theft, through recopying, and vast amounts of bad publicity for Amiga because people are trying and failing to run the OS on hardware it was never designed to run on, be it of very poor quality or quite simply never made available for testing by the OS development team.

Unless you can successfully answer this question with only hard facts and logical reasoning, you are going to bewritten off as an Idiot by many who up to now merely considered you a bit thoughtless.

That's alright, you should be used to insulting me by now...

It can only be an insult if it's not true.

Remember, you are speaking to someone currently running Linux on the AmigaOne with the ROM already in place.

Oh really!? Well, I have a black bicycle with red stripes!! So what?

Ah, please make note of this, Nurse: "Refuses to understand statements which refute his own beliefs".
Alright, in words of as few syllables as possible: HOW CAN THE HARDWARE BE LIMITED IF YOU CAN RUN MORE THAN ONE OS ON IT?

Incidentally, when are you going to set up the same petition for MorphOS? So far it looks as if it will 'only' run on PPC accelerator cards and the one motherboard designed specifically to run that OS (I deduce this from the screenshots showing the words 'Pegasos BIOS extensions' in the OF screenshots from that recent demo.

Or are you prepared to concede them the right to protect their work: the same right you won't grant to Amiga/Eyetech/Hyperion?  

proc PLONK_WASTER
DEFINE seehund =
SET verify = TRUE
SET ignore = ON
endproc

[Seehund]

Crispy_Beef:

"it can be loaded and used on other Amiga PPC products and systems [that] are certified for OS 4.0"

AmigaOS 4.0 will run on the AmigaOne and other Amiga PPC certified products...

Which is... tadaaa! The board Eyetech will be distributing.
AmigaOS is only allowed to run on licensed hardware from licensed vendors. That sounds familiar somehow... :-P

[Seehund]

anarchic_teapot:

Rose, if you can't behave like a civilised adult I don't see why you're trying to participate in discussions where people's opinions can be expected to differ from those of your own.

Being buddy with Alan Redhouse could maybe be overlooked when assessing your credibility in this particular issue, but throwing insults and ad hominem attacks over something that doesn't even concern your person removes any shred of credibility that could have remained.

I'm not biting. Take a deep breath. Read a book. If you still feel the need to spew insults, don't bother replying to the subject that somehow bothers you so much.

[Crispy_Beef]

@Seehund

Read it again

...and other Amiga PPC certified products...

Yes currently only Eyetech have a license, and well done to them, but nobody is stopping any company from submitting hardware for evaluation, are they?

[redrumloa]

Getting a little out of hand, let's not get personal.

Yes there was some editing done here. :-x

[redrumloa]

@Seehund

I know where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. I wish you'd use your energy on a more constructive cause.

[Crispy_Beef]

Getting a little out of hand, let's not get personal.

Yes, sorry about that, was considering to remove that part in hindsight anyway.

I don't normally get annoyed, but I am really wound up by people ignoring the facts.

[redrumloa]

Not just you, actually yours was a bit more tame than a few others:-) I just don't want this to get out of hand.

[anarchic_teapot]

Seehund thinks this isn't ad hominem

Being buddy with Alan Redhouse could maybe be overlooked when assessing your credibility in this particular issue, but throwing insults and ad hominem attacks over something that doesn't even concern your person removes any shred of credibility that could have remained.

I'm sorry, but until such time as you actually answer the questions you're asked, stop trying to infer people have said things they haven't, and show some proof of logical thought, I shall continue to consider you an idiot.

Thank you for the patronising attack. It is not to your credit.

[HeUnique]

Allow me to reply shortly...

1. about the quotation marks in the "petition" - because IMHO it's a stupid petition - again, it's my personal opinion only.

2. As for the slashdot stories - it's not my own decision wether to post a story or not. Some times when some of the crew can post - he posts, while other times, many of the slashdot authors refuse to post stories about Amiga until some stuff will be out..

We did posted Amiga stories. Some examples:
* the Amiga screenshots
* the Amiga DE
* Review about Amiga DE
* Eyetech offer for developer boards
and quite few others - so you cannot say we ignore the Amiga.

Rest assure that once AOS 4.0 will be out - I will see that it will be posted slashdot and Hyperion and Amiga Inc's web sites will be slashdotted. be warned

Hetz Ben Hamo
heunique@slashdot.org

[HeUnique]

Kronos dear,

May I point you to Bill's latest executive update and I quote: "With regards to OS 4.0, you may purchase this product separately from the AmigaOne, and it can be loaded and used on other Amiga PPC products and systems and are certified for OS 4.0."

As for the certification stuff - I run Office 2000 under Linux on my X86 using CrossOver office. Has it been certified by MS to run on this configuration? nope, but it runs - same thing with AOS 4.0 - you can buy it, but they're not responsible if it will run on unsupported hardware.

As for the hardware that AOS can be running - I qoute: "OS 4.0 will run on other PPC products besides the AmigaOne, like the CyberStorm and Blizzard PPC accelerator cards. That's because you, the members of The Community, with many and varied needs, wanted this support."

Got that?

Hetz Ben Hamo