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Offline jjTopic starter

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2008, 04:05:40 PM »
Yes you have to play to play online games not for everything else.

xbox360 outselling ps3 in japan of all places at the moment.

I would be surprised if sony win this console war in the shortterm. They are still making ps2 games so alot os people not switching.

Anyway you prefer the ps3 i prefer 360. all personel choices.  neither of us is wwrong or right.
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Offline AmigaHeretic

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2008, 04:13:42 PM »
Wide Screen?  Oh I would love this.  Been looking at the HTC Fuze for a purchase next year.  Widescreen would be awsome though as I watch a lot of movies on my phone.

What OS does this use?  Man I hate to say it, as much as I dislike MS, but I don't know if I can get away from Windows Mobile 6.x

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Offline adolescent

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2008, 04:26:55 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
The N95 does have a 3D GPU... In fact most mobile devices do! Since they all use pretty much the same ARM PowerVR chipset, but Windows Mobile totally lacks any support for it, and Software written for symbian can't rely on 3D support since the OS runs on devices that don't have 3D hardware...


Wrong on both counts. :roll:

Most/all current Windows Mobile devices have hardware GPU support (ex. Touch Diamond).  Qualcomm and HTC didn't get drivers out until earlier this year, but as a result they are now back ported and/or hacked onto older models with the same chipset (ex. Kaiser, Polaris, Nike).

S60 has had hardware 3d support for years (since S60 2nd Edition, Feature Pack 2).  

Quote
A developer for OSX knows that the 3D API will be present and can be used. Very few mobile devices have the GFX software support of the iPhone...  


ANY developer targeting ANY platform should know what the platform is capable of.  For instance, if you develop a game for the iPod Touch 2nd Generation, you should know that it has a much faster CPU and GPU than the iPhone 3G, iPhone, or iPod Touch and design as such.
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Offline adolescent

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2008, 04:28:46 PM »
@AmigaHeritic

It runs S60 5th Edition, not Windows Mobile.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2008, 07:39:45 PM »
Quote

adolescent wrote:
@AmigaHeritic

It runs S60 5th Edition, not Windows Mobile.


Mmm... Well, I'm sure it works with www.orb.com so that would be the main thing for me.  And widescreen + orb.com would be awsome.  Guess I'll have to see when it comes to the U.S. and what price.  

The VGA screen on the HTC Fuze is so nice.  It's reminds of a eBook reader in terms of pure smoothness and how easy on the eyes it is, but of course it's full color.  Phone are getting so much better.

I'm sure this phones screen is similar quality being such a hi-resolution and small area.



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Offline bloodline

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2008, 10:33:54 PM »
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
The N95 does have a 3D GPU... In fact most mobile devices do! Since they all use pretty much the same ARM PowerVR chipset, but Windows Mobile totally lacks any support for it, and Software written for symbian can't rely on 3D support since the OS runs on devices that don't have 3D hardware...


Wrong on both counts. :roll:


Ok, you say this then you say...

Quote

Most/all current Windows Mobile devices have hardware GPU support (ex. Touch Diamond).  Qualcomm and HTC didn't get drivers out until earlier this year, but as a result they are now back ported and/or hacked onto older models with the same chipset (ex. Kaiser, Polaris, Nike).


Yes, that's right Windows Mobile lacks any official 3D support... I've already said that most mobile devices now come with 3D hardware...

Quote

S60 has had hardware 3d support for years (since S60 2nd Edition, Feature Pack 2).  


I've already said this... Symbian has support for 3D in software, i.e. OpenGL ES 1.0... But Symbian also runs on devices that don't have 3D hardware... Therefore 3D hardware is not required to make Symbian work... OSX on the other hand does require 3D hardware.

Quote

Quote
A developer for OSX knows that the 3D API will be present and can be used. Very few mobile devices have the GFX software support of the iPhone...  


ANY developer targeting ANY platform should know what the platform is capable of.  For instance, if you develop a game for the iPod Touch 2nd Generation, you should know that it has a much faster CPU and GPU than the iPhone 3G, iPhone, or iPod Touch and design as such.


And any developer expecting to make any money will target the lowest common denominator, since that is the largest market...

Offline adolescent

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2008, 11:31:33 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Quote

Most/all current Windows Mobile devices have hardware GPU support (ex. Touch Diamond).  Qualcomm and HTC didn't get drivers out until earlier this year, but as a result they are now back ported and/or hacked onto older models with the same chipset (ex. Kaiser, Polaris, Nike).


Yes, that's right Windows Mobile lacks any official 3D support... I've already said that most mobile devices now come with 3D hardware...


Nope, you are still wrong.  :roll:  Windows Mobile has had Direct3D for some time now.  The difference was previous to working GPU drivers it was using software rendering, not the GPU hardware.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa452478.aspx

Quote
Quote

S60 has had hardware 3d support for years (since S60 2nd Edition, Feature Pack 2).  

I've already said this... Symbian has support for 3D in software, i.e. OpenGL ES 1.0... But Symbian also runs on devices that don't have 3D hardware... Therefore 3D hardware is not required to make Symbian work... OSX on the other hand does require 3D hardware.


Not sure why this is really important to you.  Like I said, if you target a specific platform, you should know what the platform can do and design as appropriate.  On the S60 platform it's as simple as checking a string value to determine if there is hardware or software 3d support.  (You need to check for other features anyway, such as screen size, color depth, etc.)  

And, what does Mac OS 10 have to do with anything?  :crazy:  We're talking about mobile operating systems, Windows Mobile, Symbian, iPhone OS, etc.  

Quote
And any developer expecting to make any money will target the lowest common denominator, since that is the largest market...


And risk the game running incorrectly on the faster model?  Better to just add logic to change the game experience basesd on the system it's run on. (ie. run with more detail on an iPod Touch 2nd gen., less on iPhone 3G, still less on the older models.)  This isn't anything specific to any architecture, from Amiga OS to iPhone OS, to Symbian.  
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline mikrucio

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2008, 04:49:46 AM »
im still using my P900!  :lol:
best phone eva!

And i can bluetooth send!
Beat that iphone!
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2008, 09:28:38 PM »
Quote

mikrucio wrote:
im still using my P900!  :lol:
best phone eva!

And i can bluetooth send!
Beat that iphone!


Yeah, I bet you can send pictures in a txt message too ;-)

Then just to kick you in the balls there's no copy and paste either!

 :lol:
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Offline kickstart

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2008, 10:36:34 PM »
You cant send any file by bluetooth or mms because steve jobs is reinventing the communications, this features are from the past, like buttons, decent camera, durable and extraible batteries...
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Offline Trev

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2008, 10:56:08 PM »
iPhone v. Windows Mobile market share: http://www.edibleapple.com/iphone-tops-windows-mobile-in-worldwide-market-share/

Interesting bit:

Quote
Microsoft, in its zeal to get Windows Mobile onto as many phones as possible, is left with a phone OS that no one wants to use, and more importantly, one that developers don’t want to code for. Developers, who have long been getting chump change for their apps, are starting to see that they can make quite a bit of money developing programs for rival platforms such as the iPhone. Compounding the problem is the sheer number of devices that run Windows Mobile. If I’m a coder who wants to develop for Windows Mobile, which phone specs will I be using when I sit down and try to hash out some code? Will the phone have an acceleromator? Will it have a touchscreen? How big will the screen even be?! The questions are endless, and the headaches for developers numerous.


Gee, sounds a lot like developing for any platform that runs on arbitrary hardware, particularly with regard to game development. The toughest part for developers on the iPhone is the perception that everything should cost 0.99 USD (too much for a song, in my opinion, and probably not enough for a decent application). I've resisted buying music from iTunes because you can only download the song once, despite the fact that Apple keeps a complete history of your purchases and authorized playback devices. With apps, however, you can purchase them once and download them as many times as you want to however many devices you own.

EDIT: Wishful thinking: Microsoft releases Windows Mobile to the masses as an open source general purpose RTOS. It's necessarily quite open as it is, but even though you can port it to most any hardware platform, Microsoft won't allow you to redistribute your port without paying the piper.

I use my iPod Touch and iPhone 3G for browsing the web on the toilet and in the car and talking on the phone, although I prefer my old Motorola SLVR (w/ iTunes, which I never used) for the phone bits.

@kickstart

Although despite most plans for smart phones having unlimited data, providers still implement and charge exhorbitant prices for SMS messaging. SMS needs to die.
 

Offline mikrucio

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2008, 10:59:25 PM »
lol the iphone sux!
 

Offline Trev

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2008, 11:01:50 PM »
@mikrucio

That was an excellent counterpoint.
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2008, 11:16:33 PM »
Quote
Looks cool. Unfortunately due to where my family is we're stuck with Verizon, and they don't do cool phones like that. :( I was interested in their cut-down version of the HTC Touch Pro, but they require to sign up for data plan minimum $30/month for any smart phone. :( :( :( It freakin has Wifi in it, I don't need the freakin data plan... I don't know how phone companies operate outside of USA, but here I feel like they just want to rip me off and so I keep my old crappy getting senile Razr.


Some time in 2009, Verizon will start opening up their network to outside phones, once Verizon tests and approves of it of course.

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Offline AmigaHeretic

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2008, 11:24:04 PM »
Quote

Trev wrote:
iPhone v. Windows Mobile market share: http://www.edibleapple.com/iphone-tops-windows-mobile-in-worldwide-market-share/

Interesting bit:

Quote
Microsoft, in its zeal to get Windows Mobile onto as many phones as possible, is left with a phone OS that no one wants to use, and more importantly, one that developers don’t want to code for. Developers, who have long been getting chump change for their apps, are starting to see that they can make quite a bit of money developing programs for rival platforms such as the iPhone. Compounding the problem is the sheer number of devices that run Windows Mobile. If I’m a coder who wants to develop for Windows Mobile, which phone specs will I be using when I sit down and try to hash out some code? Will the phone have an acceleromator? Will it have a touchscreen? How big will the screen even be?! The questions are endless, and the headaches for developers numerous.


Gee, sounds a lot like developing for any platform that runs on arbitrary hardware, particularly with regard to game development. The toughest part for developers on the iPhone is the perception that everything should cost 0.99 USD (too much for a song, in my opinion, and probably not enough for a decent application). I've resisted buying music from iTunes because you can only download the song once, despite the fact that Apple keeps a complete history of your purchases and authorized playback devices. With apps, however, you can purchase them once and download them as many times as you want to however many devices you own.

I use my iPod Touch and iPhone 3G for browsing the web on the toilet and in the car and talking on the phone, although I prefer my old Motorola SLVR (w/ iTunes, which I never used) for the phone bits.




I'd love to have an iPhone.  They are pretty cool looking and there's probably nothing that works as seamless and smooth as the iPhoneOS...

...but really, for a phone these days, MMS, I mean sending picture messages?  That's a big one for me, though I'm sure for others they never use MMS at all.

...As far as that article and programing for Windows Mobile.. eh.. there are tons of programs out there by "bedroom" coders.  There is no way you can compare the # of Windows Mobile apps to iPhone apps ( YET ;-) )My favorite IRC app, for example, on my phone is zsIRC.  It's one guy and you can talk to him right on the forum of his site.  The IRC app is awsome.

That said there are just so many apps I have on my WM6 phone, some that I could probably find if I got an iPhone and I 'jailbroke' it.  But I don't want to deal with all that.

Then there are just the hardware limits. With WM6 you obviously have more than one choice of phone.

My phone I use for MEDIA, oh yeah!!  I use orb.com a lot which works for the iPhone too, but if I want to bring movies with me I use PocketDivX and throw everything on MicroSD cards movies, music, whatever. (16GB on one of those little cards, it's just amazing).  

The iPhone is a music phone and I think the lack of a memory card slot is another big miss for me.  I just use my phone for too much media.

I'm as big an MS basher as they come, but really WM6 "just works" and there are tons of Apps and phones to choose.

The iPhone is obviosuly here to stay for a LONG time.  Hopefully though they will add some of these features that a lot of people want and make it a complete solution.  I keep hoping they anounce a 3rd generation phone soon.


Quote
Although despite most plans for smart phones having unlimited data, providers still implement and charge exhorbitant prices for SMS messaging. SMS needs to die.


I'm on ATT and the data package I have includes unlimited SMS/MMS.  I don't know if SMS should die, but SMS prices need to die as they're rediculous.  Before I got my data plan ATT changed their rates to 15 cents to send and 15 cents to recieve!  That's crazy.
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Offline adolescent

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Re: Mmmmmmm me want
« Reply #59 from previous page: December 17, 2008, 11:45:10 PM »
Quote

Trev wrote:

Quote
Microsoft, in its zeal to get Windows Mobile onto as many phones as possible, is left with a phone OS that no one wants to use, and more importantly, one that developers don’t want to code for. Developers, who have long been getting chump change for their apps, are starting to see that they can make quite a bit of money developing programs for rival platforms such as the iPhone. Compounding the problem is the sheer number of devices that run Windows Mobile. If I’m a coder who wants to develop for Windows Mobile, which phone specs will I be using when I sit down and try to hash out some code? Will the phone have an acceleromator? Will it have a touchscreen? How big will the screen even be?! The questions are endless, and the headaches for developers numerous.



Agreed.  As I've said about 5 times in this thread so far, developers really need to know their target (unless you're doing J2ME stuff but even then you still need to know what JSRs are supported).  

Anyway, iPod/iPhone developers aren't immune to this either (albiet to a lesser scale because of the devices infancy); GPS or no GPS?  FPU or no FPU?  CPU speed?  To make matters worse, AFAIK there is nothing in the SDK that allows you to determine device capabilities.  There's probably an undocumented API call somewhere, but we know how Apple likes developers using undocumented features.  :lol:
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(