MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)

[pVC]

I have seen screenshots from new WB 4.1 listers but I doubt it still comes even close. Ambient is simply too far ahead right now.

Yep, WB4.1 listers don't have Ambient kind of functionality at all in current state.

[Hans_]

pVC wrote:
With very limited testing I could guess it depends about the size of mass storage device too. 2GB stick doesn't show up instantly, but lot faster than 250GB drive. When I plug that 250GB drive in, first it doesn't seem to happen anything. With my very first try I had time to start looking mounter program, because I thought it doesn't automount. Then there appears uninitialized icon on desktop and finally it changes to correct drive icon and I can use the drive. Also I had problem to get memory stick to work when having several devices plugged... or maybe I just didn't have patience to wait enough.

Part of the problem could be lack of USB 2.0 support, although the delay that you talk about sounds too long to be just about slow transfer rates (12 Mb/s or whatever USB 1's limit is, should still be able to transfer 1 MiB/s).

The default 4.1 theme has yellowish backgrounds everywhere, like in all prefs programs. Or maybe it's just my cheap TFT monitors, but it really shows up like light yellow... reminds me yellowed Amigas or old paper Also the rest of the color choises don't work that good together in my opinion, like the red group titles.

The main background is blue with a boing-ball, etc. To be honest, I can't remember what the window backgrounds were because I changed that to my personal preference right away. I just don't remember the default being yellowish at all, especially not in the prefs programs.

I was thinking that this comparison is made with out-of-the-box systems. Or is there PNG pointers or 3D blankers in 4.1 cd somewhere? I haven't noticed... it would go too wide if we take all 3rd party stuff in count here too. BTW. PNG-icons don't seem to work by default on OS4.1 either. It gave me problems at first when some programs had png-icon on their dir and without 3rd party extension the dir wasn't accessible from Workbench.

Fair enough. It would be ridiculously easy to collect the blankers and pointers and put them on the CD though.

I never noticed it opening additional windows that shouldn't be visible. And my default AHI settings worked just fine.  after installation.

Installer opened Dialer shell window at some point of network configuration. It showed unnecessary information and the window wasn't closed by installer ever. That gave me uncertain feeling if the installation was finished at the end, because it wasn't closed or there wasn't any information if everything was completed.

Well that explains why I didn't see that, I don't use dial-up any more.

AHI had all settings zeroed when it opened its config window during the installation. I noticed it, but forgot to change everything and that's why I didn't had any sound after installation. More inexperienced user could be in trouble because of that. I heard some others have had same problem too.

Out of curiosity, which sound card are you using? My SBLive's default values were fine.

Which games? I've run Wipeout no problem; I wasn't too interested in other old games. I'm still working on MiniGL (the OS 4.1 version was a beta) so if you have any issues with 3D (not for old 68k/WarpOS games though), please let me know.

As I said, with old Amiga games/demos. I'm interested backwards compatibility and that's why I haven't tried new OS4 native 3D stuff that much. Almost all games started, but had some graphical problems. Wipeout works best, but not perfectly. Transparencies doesn't seem to work in it. For example on screen texts and graphics have boxed background when it should be transparent.[/quote]

What graphics card do you have? Transparency works fine in Wipeout on my card (Radeon 9000 pro).

Hans

[pVC]

xeron wrote:
Actually, a few of your claims are wildly inaccurate, as has been pointed out, but if you want to still believe that, for example, OWB is still a "simple SDL recompile" because it makes you feel all warm and snuggly about how superior MorphOS is, rather than actually researching your arguments, thats up to you.

About that browser situation. I like Sputnik being MUI-based, but OWB seems to render pages better. For example the google maps. I haven't tested either properly as they both are still unfinished. Still using Ibrowse as my main browser. But OWB surely is nice addon to Amiga scene nevertheless.

The other thing I disagreed with was where pVC claimed that OS4's prefs were inconsistent; all OS4 prefs modules are compiled against a common preferences framework. Where any two prefs have the same functionality, it will be in the exact same place. They also all use the same GUI toolkit. Where they differ, its because they are showing preferences for different things. The only prefs editor I can think of that is really different is GUI prefs, where it uses a lister instead of tabs, but really, it has so many options that would be unwieldy. But the GUI prefs is really for "pro" users, most people just use pre-defined skins.

I have difficulties to find correct prefs programs for wanted setting, but that's same on OS3.9 too. But now there's even more settings. I think that for example printer prefs could have been combined to one place. There's also network settings in two places (in prefs drawer and in sys). GUI prefs is messy and looks pretty much taken from VisualPrefs style instead of making it OS4 style. Then there's Picasso96Mode, which differs completely from everything else. Some prefs have only couple of choises while others might have massive amount of stuff.

And then all prefs programs are in same dir without any order. You have to look through lots of separate prefs names when you're looking for user interface settings for example. In MorphOS they're all in their own categories. It's lot easier when you're looking for certain type of settings.

One thing you have to remember is that MorphOS had a big head start in development time to OS4, and there was a time when OS4 was quite far behind, and now it is only a bit behind in some areas. In fact, in some cases MorphOS has caught up to OS4 (64bit filesystems, TCP/IP etc).

The thing is, in a lot of areas where OS4 used to be behind, it has caught up, and development hasn't slowed a bit. It is unusual if there arent updates to the beta version every single day. IMHO, on the areas where OS4 still is behind, it won't be long before it catches up. A lot of the weak points pointed out in this thread are being worked on.

I thought the question was to compare MorphOS2 to OS4.1 in the current state from the regular user's point of view And in that context OS4.1 seems to be far behind in many important areas from user point of view again. MorphOS is also developing rapidly. There's constant development (even betas available (newer than in 2.1)) with MUI4 and Ambient. MorphOS 2.2 is coming soon (some components of it are also obtainable if needed) etc. I would be surprised if there would be major change in Workbench vs. Ambient functionality in near future for example, but feel free to prove my thoughts wrong

Another thing about MorphOS that I found was that it seemed pretty much dead to me. The forums on morphzone are very quiet, and there never seemed to be all that much software written for MorphOS, outside of the occasional AmigaZeux release and a couple of other devs. Whereas there is often new or updated software to download for OS4, and the OS4 web forums are much livelier places.

I guess that also depends where your focus is. Ok, MorphZone could be more active, but also there isn't that much useless hype and speculation about MorphOS than on OS4. It's more facts and real issues. Also OS4 forums have classic Amiga talks etc, which are missing on MorphOS sites.

And for programs, I think there's lots of nice releases regularly. Nice game ports, one of the latest is Homeworld for example. One pick could also be MPlayer, which just got MUI-GUI module and I'd say it's the best movie player around. On MorphOS version everything works after you unpack the archive. Even subtitles work fine ootb, which have been problem even on Win/Linux in my experience. ShowGirls is absolutely great picture viewer/editor. Never seen such great program on any platform.. and many more, but I'm out of time for today now

[pVC]

Hans_ wrote:

pVC wrote:
With very limited testing I could guess it depends about the size of mass storage device too. 2GB stick doesn't show up instantly, but lot faster than 250GB drive. When I plug that 250GB drive in, first it doesn't seem to happen anything. With my very first try I had time to start looking mounter program, because I thought it doesn't automount. Then there appears uninitialized icon on desktop and finally it changes to correct drive icon and I can use the drive. Also I had problem to get memory stick to work when having several devices plugged... or maybe I just didn't have patience to wait enough.

Part of the problem could be lack of USB 2.0 support, although the delay that you talk about sounds too long to be just about slow transfer rates (12 Mb/s or whatever USB 1's limit is, should still be able to transfer 1 MiB/s).

I don't know. It's instant on Pegasos when trying with USB1.1 controller too.

The main background is blue with a boing-ball, etc. To be honest, I can't remember what the window backgrounds were because I changed that to my personal preference right away. I just don't remember the default being yellowish at all, especially not in the prefs programs.

Main background is fine with boingball, but the window backgrounds.

Fair enough. It would be ridiculously easy to collect the blankers and pointers and put them on the CD though.

The blankers itself isn't the issue, but these things in complete and what feeling and impression they give to user who has bought or is going to buy the product. It doesn't give very modern look if the only blankers are only some 80's line blankers.

Well that explains why I didn't see that, I don't use dial-up any more.

I don't either. I used static ethernet addresses. It outputted couple of lines eth3com things.

Out of curiosity, which sound card are you using? My SBLive's default values were fine.

SBLive (CT4830).

What graphics card do you have? Transparency works fine in Wipeout on my card (Radeon 9000 pro).

I've tested it with 8500LE and 9250.

[redfox]

@amiga4ever

I tried my best to present an unbiased opinion in my earlier post.

Here is some info about the system which I own and use every day ...

AmigaOS 4.1 :banana:

My system is a MicroA1-C.  After a few glitches at the beginning, my AmigaOS 4.1 system is very stable now.  I use it daily for surfing the web, listening to music, and general hobby stuff.  Due to video RAM limitations on the MicroA1, I am not using all the bells and whistles.

I use a mixture of PPC and 68K applications.  All the following programs work fine.  I launch all of them directly from my OS 4.1 Workbench (except for KingCON, AWNPipe and SMTPpost).  I have not tried all the features of every program ...

OWB 2.13 (Origyn Web Browser)
AwebPPC (aka AWeb APL Lite 3.5.09)
IBrowse 2.4
Final Writer 97
NotePad
MultiView
UnArc
AmiPDF
WarpView (an image wiewer which uses Warp3D to display the images)
DvPlayer (Digital Video Player for AmigaOS)
AmigaAMP
PlayCD
AmiDVD
MakeCD
Cloanto Personal Paint (PPaint)
TVPaint
Real3D
WookieChat
SimpleMail
YAM
MystDemo program (have not tried the real game)
LTris
Soliton (a very nice MUI based Solitaire card game)
E-UAE
KingCON
MicroRexx
AWNPipe
SMTPpost from INetUtils
AmiPOP

Both of my USB flash sticks and my camera work fine with OS4.1 ...
Lexar JumpDrive 512MB formatted for FastFileSystem with long file names
Kingston DataTraveler 512MB formatted for FAT
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H2 camera

I also have a single Memorex High Speed CD-RW disc which mounts as an OS4 cdrw: device, which I can use as a read write device similar to a very large floppy disk.

I use AmiDVD for backups, writing to CD-RW discs or CD-R discs.

E-UAE allows me to run some very old programs which require the classic chipset.  I also use E-UAE to install programs which require the old installer program from AmigaOS 3.x.

---
redfox

[redfox]

@amiga4ever

I have never seen or used MorphOS 2, but I like the screenshots available on the net.

---
redfox

[TNovosel]

From my point of view pVC is truly right.

I have Os4.0 and Mos2.0 (unregistred) and MorphOs is better in any points over Os4.0. (I don't know about Os4.1)
Many 68k programs/games don't work on Os4, and many which start fine, after some time freezes with GR and DSI error.
Many time after that only reset help.

On MOS,68k program will run and do work, or will simply crush whole system on start.

I make on both systems dir "68K" in which I put only STABLE 68k programs, and many times I must remove some programs on Os4 because DSI error pop on the screen after using some options. Mos 68k programs work perfectily or don't work at all.

I have also 9 classic amigas and I still prefer Os3.9 over Mos and Os4. I like amiga's paint/animation/music software but Mos and Os4 sadly don't have anything which I can use to create something.

My last Amiga hope is only Natami :bow: , because I sick of to many Amiga "compatibile" systems with limited software support.


 

[Hans_]

TNovosel wrote:
I have Os4.0 and Mos2.0 (unregistred) and MorphOs is better in any points over Os4.0. (I don't know about Os4.1)

So you're not even using MorphOS 2.1? In that case, you're comparing two older versions of the OSes, which is not useful. Amiga OS 4.1, in particular, is a big improvement over version 4.0. No idea what difference MorphOS 2.1 makes.

Hans

[TNovosel]

@Hans

MorphOs 2.1 fixes only some bugs in Mos2.0, nothing more.

[Hans_]

TNovosel wrote:
@Hans

MorphOs 2.1 fixes only some bugs in Mos2.0, nothing more.

Well, Amiga OS 4.1 is significantly better than Amiga OS 4.0.

Hans

[TNovosel]

Hans_ wrote:

Well, Amiga OS 4.1 is significantly better than Amiga OS 4.0.

Hans

I believe you, many other Os4.1 users say that also.
It is 68k compatibility also better?

[Hans_]

TNovosel wrote:

Hans_ wrote:

Well, Amiga OS 4.1 is significantly better than Amiga OS 4.0.

Hans

I believe you, many other Os4.1 users say that also.
It is 68k compatibility also better?

I've been told that it is, but I've never really tested it personally. Most of my software is OS4 native.

Hans

[hooligan]

Do you guys think there is a website for Lamborghini- and Ferrariowners to debate which carbrand is better? :-)

[Matt_H]

@ Hans_

What I thought to be the latest version of MPlayer on OS4 (from November of last year) is a crashy mess. Is there a newer version kicking around anywhere?

I like DVPlayer (I'm a registered user), but it just doesn't handle everything. That's why I like having both around.

On a partially-related note, could you talk a bit more about the new features in 4.1? It seems like not many details beyond the press release and "It's better" have made it out. Not a huge deal, as I will get 4.1 eventually, but in the meantime I'm just curious.

[Hans_]

Matt_H wrote:
@ Hans_

What I thought to be the latest version of MPlayer on OS4 (from November of last year) is a crashy mess. Is there a newer version kicking around anywhere?

Not that I know of, but then, I haven't used MPlayer in a while.

On a partially-related note, could you talk a bit more about the new features in 4.1? It seems like not many details beyond the press release and "It's better" have made it out. Not a huge deal, as I will get 4.1 eventually, but in the meantime I'm just curious.

I have a brief review here. It was written about a week or so after installing OS 4.1 so it's a bit brief.

Visible improvements:
- It's more stable than OS 4.0
- Its composition engine works well and is integrated nicely without any visible slowdown
- The new lister mode makes scanning through files easier, particularly with rescaled icons indicating what the files are
- MiniGL 2.0 beta allows more OpenGL software to run (see the OS 4.1 only OpenGL games on os4depot)
- PTP cameras are supported (I don't have one of those personally, but some people are very happy about this one)
- AmigaInput is back so joystick support is available (the prefs/calibration program has everything that you'd expect)
- That's all I can remember right now (I don't have my machine with me)

The invisible improvements:
- Changes to DOS
- Native Cairo port (although it's noticeable in that the latest version of OWB requires it)
- Intelligent memory pager (stays out of your way until you need it, you won't really notice that it's there)
- Other stuff I haven't noticed yet or forgot about

A lot of the changes are internal, and really of benefit to developers. I'm hoping that the new SDK comes out soon so that more developers can take advantage of the new features.

You can read a more detailed review on arstechnica.

Hans

[pVC]

Matt_H wrote:
What I thought to be the latest version of MPlayer on OS4 (from November of last year) is a crashy mess. Is there a newer version kicking around anywhere?

I like DVPlayer (I'm a registered user), but it just doesn't handle everything. That's why I like having both around.

I haven't found later version of MPlayer either. And that version sucks pretty much. OSD texts and subtitles are flashy and aspect ratio is lost in full screen etc.

I also haven't registered DVPlayer, so it doesn't play much here. How does it handle xvids etc? What it haven't handled on you?

On a partially-related note, could you talk a bit more about the new features in 4.1? It seems like not many details beyond the press release and "It's better" have made it out. Not a huge deal, as I will get 4.1 eventually, but in the meantime I'm just curious.

Yeah, I'm missing detailed information on that too. MorphOS has pretty comprehensive pages about those things (www.morphos-team.net).

BTW. here are screenshots of installing both systems and some after install pics too: for AmigaOS4.1 and for MorphOS2.0