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AuthorTopic: MorphOS on x86???  (Read 7777 times)

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Offline mingle

MorphOS on x86???
« on: September 08, 2008, 07:16:30 AM »
Hi,

I'm probably stating the obvious and/or flogging a dead horse here, but is there any chance that MorphOS could appear for x86?

If not, what are the main reason for it not?

I can think of a few, but please feel free to let me know if there are any more obvious ones:

1: Lack of resources/developers
2: Difficulty of porting to such a large range of hardware (see point 1:).

I just think it'd be amazing if MorphOS was available for the cheap and powerful x86 hardware...

!

Cheers,

Mike.
 

Offline arnljot

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 08:14:00 AM »
The never endian(-ess) endian issue is also brought up.

But AROS must partly have addressed that issue since they now are on PPC and x86
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
http://www.arnljot.com
 

Offline Manu

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 01:26:07 PM »
Quote

I'm probably stating the obvious and/or flogging a dead horse here,


Yup.

Quote

but is there any chance that MorphOS could appear for x86?


No

Quote

If not, what are the main reason for it not?

endian-hell, takes to long, impossible to support all x86 hardwares, no one would do be interested doing it, Compability with Deluxe Music Construction Set would suck, PPC is better, Intel is evil, We can't compete with Windows....insert you favorite here...

Quote

I just think it'd be amazing if MorphOS was available for the cheap and powerful x86 hardware...

Me too but it will never happen.
Aros is the only chance you got.

PS. Read my sig.
 8-)
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they\\\'d go faster. --D.Haynie
__________________________________________
http://www.cartoonspace.net
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 02:35:51 PM »
The enitre argument that endian-ness is the reason that MorphOS will never be ported to x86 is ridiculous.  Several operating systems have made the leap to x86 without any problems whatsoever.  OSX is one example.  Even Windows NT went the opposite direction and was ported to PPC many years ago.  It languished due to lack of interest until Microsoft finally stopped supporting and developing it.

The primary reason we won't see MorphOS on x86 any time soon is simply demand related.  There aren't enough people out there who want to use it on x86 hardware to make it profitable for the MorphOS team to invest in developing for the x86 platform.

If you really want a MorphOS-like operating system to run on your x86 hardware, then I suggest OSX.  I've been able to install and run the Kalyway Leopard version of OSX on everything from an IBM Thinkpad to a Panasonic CF-74 Toughbook.  And OSX is much more mature and robust than MorphOS right now.  I hope that will change, but until MorphOS has an office suite and a web browser that properly supports CSS and Java, it will always be crippled and suffer from a lack of demand.
 

Offline itix

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 02:48:42 PM »
Problem there is that you must drop all existing software.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline EDanaII

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 03:54:03 PM »
So, software on hardware you can't use is better than software you can't use on hardware you can?

One of these two can be replaced more easily than the other...

Ed.
Ed.
 

Offline countzero

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 04:00:58 PM »
The main problem is, they can't sell the outdated hardware for ridiculous amounts of money once they port to x86, and that's what everyone is counting for. they know if they don't have an exotic hardware, the software can always be cracked and pirated. sad but true.
I believe in mt. Fuji
 

Offline zylesea

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 05:06:34 PM »
Quote

ferrellsl wrote:
The enitre argument that endian-ness is the reason that MorphOS will never be ported to x86 is ridiculous.  Several operating systems have made the leap to x86 without any problems whatsoever.  OSX is one example.  Even Windows NT went the opposite direction and was ported to PPC many years ago.  It languished due to lack of interest until Microsoft finally stopped supporting and developing it.



You cannot compare OS X or NT with MorphOS in that regard. Programs and the OS itself share common structures, a 68k application cannot work in a x86 OS unless it is individually boxed (the approach the AROS guys are trying now).
The shared structs are a heritage of the old AmigaOS (and not a bad thing as long as you stay in the same endianess).
On OS X or NT structs are not shared, thus there's no enianess trouble.  

Quote


If you really want a MorphOS-like operating system to run on your x86 hardware, then I suggest OSX.


While OS X is a quite fine OS it is IMO *very* different to MorphOS: On OS X the User should not control the system (but there's not much need for that anyway, OS X does it for you) and while very nice in appearence it is a slow ressource hog (which only feels fast due to massive hardware power). IMO good to work with, but also a bit boring.

Offline ferrellsl

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 05:21:23 PM »
@zylesea

I didn't say one thing about software.  This thread was/is about MorphOS and why it won't be ported to x86 anytime soon, if ever.

My comments were in no way a comparison of MorphOS, Windows NT or OS X.  I was pointing out that endian-ness is not a problem when porting ANY operating system to different hardware architectures.  If it was a problem, we wouldn't see Linux running on nearly every processor that's been developed.  I'm tired of arm-chair experts who constantly sound like parrots and repeat the same old garbage that endian-ness is what is keeping MorphOS from being ported to x86.  If it's such a problem, then how did the AROS team port it to PPC? If it's such a problem, how did Microsoft port NT to the PPC?  If it's such a problem, how did Apple port OSX to x86?  OS porting across architectures happens all the time!  And of course it means the applications need to be recompiled for the target OS unless you use something like Rosetta or Wine or DOSBox.  Nobody is/was arguing this point, but for some reason you seem to be trolling for a fight.
 
And yes, the operating systems that I mentioned are all diverse and quite different, but of the ones I mentioned, OSX is quite similar to MorphOS and to OS4, at least on the surface.  Endian-ness will never be the reason why an OS is or isn't ported.  It's all about demand and the return on investment for the developer!
 

Offline Golem!dk

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 05:27:37 PM »
@ferrellsl

An operating system without applications isn't very useful.
~
 

Offline Hans_

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2008, 05:36:36 PM »
Quote

arnljot wrote:
The never endian(-ess) endian issue is also brought up.

But AROS must partly have addressed that issue since they now are on PPC and x86


AROS solves the endianness issue by not trying to have binary compatibility. Thus, AROS PowerPC software won't run on x86 and vice versa.

So, if one were to ditch compatibility with every single MorphOS program out there today, sure, it would be easy. Otherwise, writing an emulator for existing software that integrates properly with the system would be a huge task.

Hans
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 08:00:48 PM »
@Golem!dk

Wow, has anyone told you that you have a talent for stating the obvious?!

Did you even read my posts?  Obviously not.
 

Offline trekiej

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 08:25:29 PM »
I wonder if those who have an OS that is big and little endian per cpu have a developement tool chain capable of handling both?
How did BeOS cope?
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.
 

Offline Hans_

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 08:29:45 PM »
Quote

trekiej wrote:
I wonder if those who have an OS that is big and little endian per cpu have a developement tool chain capable of handling both?
How did BeOS cope?


No idea about BeOS, but it's common to have a header file such as endian.h that indicates which type the current CPU uses. Most software developers don't have to worry about endianness, but when you start doing things that access hardware directly, or read/write stuff to/from disk or streams, CPU endianness does make a difference. For example, a CD/DVD-writer app for AROS would have to take CPU endianness into account as it accesses the CD/DVD drive at a low level. Otherwise, it would work either on AROS x86, or on PowerPC, but not both.

Hans
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
 

Offline trekiej

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2008, 08:30:09 PM »
I have done some C programming and wanted to know if some one could give us a good example of when endianess becomes an issue. I bet this has been a subject many times before.
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.