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AuthorTopic: MorphOS on x86???  (Read 7723 times)

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Offline downix

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2008, 04:30:49 AM »
Home Premium is buying half an OS.  To compare to MorphOS, you must go Ultimate.  So the comparison is invalid.  I went by MSRP, not some undercutting dealers price.  We don't have millions of dealers competing, to force a price war.

But frankly, MorphOS guys can set whatever price they choose, it's their OS.  Don't like the price, don't buy it.  just that simple.  I'm considering it myself, but the lack of suitable hw holds me back.  I consider it reasonable compared to how much I've spent for Be, OS/2 and Solaris in my day.
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Offline ferrellsl

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2008, 04:36:00 AM »
Well, I'll have to disagree with you that MorphOS is in the same league as Vista Ultimate, especially when it comes to useful applications.

I certainly agree that the MorphOS team can charge whatever they want, but in addition to the lack of decent hardware, the high price is keep many people from buying it.  I've seen many of the posts here myself decrying the high price.

I'd buy it too and run it on my dormant PegII, but I can't justify the purchase when I consider that my PegII is already outdated, MorphOS is sorely lacking applications, and I can get more powerful, better supported OS's much cheaper.

And unfortunately there will never be dealers for MorphOS undercutting each other with price wars for the very same reasons I stated in the previous paragraphs.
 

Offline TheMagicM

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2008, 05:01:30 AM »
@ferrel

you can always write your own OS and give it away, port it to whichever system you'd like.  Let me know which mailing list you'll be creating for designing this new OS.   :-)


Quote
I'd buy it too and run it on my dormant PegII, but I can't justify the purchase when I consider that my PegII is already outdated, MorphOS is sorely lacking applications, and I can get more powerful, better supported OS's much cheaper.



well why port MOS to x86?  you still wouldnt have new applications and you wouldnt see programmers coming out of the woodwork just because MOS is on x86.
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline mschulz

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2008, 05:22:11 AM »
Quote

ferrellsl wrote:
Uhhhh, sorry to inform you, but it has ALREADY been proven.......look at all the operating systems out there that have been ported to different architectures, both PPC and x86, such as Yellow Dog Linux (x86 and PPC), OS X (x86 and PPC), Windows NT (PPC and x86). Are you saying that they weren't ported?  I bet you think the lunar landings were faked too!  I never said that the ports didn't suffer from a lack of support or software.


Have you really read what I wrote? Please, do it carefully again. I know software would suffer because of porting. I wrote you, however, what the community here would demand if MOS would ever be ported to x86. Did you read that part of my reply? It seems you didn't.

Please note that I am not a native English speaker. If you didn't understand some part of my reply due to my poor language skills, ask.

Before you start insulting me again a small hint: I'm the one who made AROS boot natively on x86 for the first time. I have ported AROS to x86_64 and sam440 (it's PPC) too and now I am porting AROS to efika. I guess I know how to port AROS to different architectures with different endianess. I bet I have more knowledge about porting an operating system to different architectures than you.
 

Offline cicero790

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2008, 08:27:43 AM »
Michael, thank you for porting it to x86 the far biggest, the cheapest, most scalable, most powerful platform available. I run it with astronomical speed on an x64. Personally I wished you had worked on a browser but I hope it will come any way and that will make a big difference for my use of AROS on a more daily basis.
Amiga made a bad call in not recognizing the worlds demand for 3d. Amiga needs power behind it. Going x86 is in IMHO the cheapest and most reasonable way.

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Offline Painkiller

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2008, 08:58:08 AM »
I would rather see MOS on PS3 than any other platform. Here are a few reason:

-Cheap
-Very powerfull processor
-Will be available for many years to come
-Many people already owns it

Only thing bothering is the fact that accelerated GFX are disabled when using other OS with PS3. This could be over come by writing an acceleration driver for the SPEs, but that kind of think would eat up a lot of development resources.
 

Offline cicero790

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2008, 09:05:48 AM »
@Painkiller

Well a PS3 is a PS3 (Never owned one. Always did work and played games on PC with the latest graphic cards.) But if you buy an old PC for a dollar you can run AROS. If you make a HTPC you can run AROS or you can run it on a brand new power PC or a small pico itx. The versatility is the heaviest argument for me.

If it walks, flies or swims you can use it if it's x86. That's that extra ability that makes it compelling to me.
A1200 030 40MHz: 2/32MB Indivision AGA MkII
A600 7 MHz: 2MB
AROS 600 MHz
PC 13600 MHz: quad core i7 2600K 3.4GHz: 16GB RAM: ATI HD6950 2GB   (Yes I know)

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Offline Painkiller

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2008, 09:59:46 AM »
Now what programs are you able to run with Aros x86? How usable is it in everyday use? How is the hardware support etc.  With PS3 you would have a single target hardware and it would easier for the dev team to support it.
 

Offline warpdesign

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2008, 10:03:34 AM »
Quote

Plus there would be the requirement to not only rewritete the 68k emulation (two of them in fact!), but to write PPC emulator aswell.

Why ? Did Apple include a 68k emulator with OSX-Intel ?

It's the opportunity to remove these stupid emulations layers... And improve this old operating system. I see it as an opportunity more than as a problem...

As for the PPC emulator, again, most software could be recompiled...

Of course, software wouldn't magically appear, same goes for the developpers. But at least there is a huge potential. By staying on PPC, we don't even have such potential...

Of course this would be huge work... But doesn't it worth it ? Or should we stay forever running OS3.x software ??

I'm really wondering why developers do not look more in the future... It would be so great to have a true *modern* OS... And the worst thing is that everything is ready for that with Quark/QBox... I wonder why you didn't take Hyperion's approach and directly base the OS on Exec since it seems you're not taking advantage of all the features provided by Quark/QBox... :(
 

Offline Piru

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Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2008, 10:13:46 AM »
@warpdesign
Quote
Why ? Did Apple include a 68k emulator with OSX-Intel ?

How would Apple's situation compare to ours in any way?

Apple had quite a bit more resources don't you agree?

Quote
It's the opportunity to remove these stupid emulations layers

I don't think they're stupid, nor I think they could be removed. We wouldn't have any software then.
Quote
most software could be recompiled

You live in a dreamworld.

Quote
I'm really wondering why developers do not look more in the future... It would be so great to have a true *modern* OS..

Feel free to write one.
 

Offline downix

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2008, 10:29:40 AM »
Quote

cicero790 wrote:
Michael, thank you for porting it to x86 the far biggest, the cheapest, most scalable, most powerful platform available. I run it with astronomical speed on an x64. Personally I wished you had worked on a browser but I hope it will come any way and that will make a big difference for my use of AROS on a more daily basis.
Amiga made a bad call in not recognizing the worlds demand for 3d. Amiga needs power behind it. Going x86 is in IMHO the cheapest and most reasonable way.


Not the biggest, as x86 is found primarily in desktops, and the cell phone market alone dwarves what you can find x86 based CPU's running in.

Not the cheapest either, as I can pick up SoC's where the whole system is less than just the x86 CPU.

Not the most scalable either, as you can find chips like PPC, ARM and MIPS running in a wider variety of devices.  

So please, inform the class your proof for such wild claims.

The desktop is on the way out.  It's market dominance is fading in light of such magnificent devices as smartphones, UMPCs, and the like, which run online.  Once you step out of this little bubble that is the desktop world, it's a whole new ballgame, and a whole new set of rules.  
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Offline downix

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2008, 10:31:23 AM »
Quote

cicero790 wrote:
@Painkiller

Well a PS3 is a PS3 (Never owned one. Always did work and played games on PC with the latest graphic cards.) But if you buy an old PC for a dollar you can run AROS. If you make a HTPC you can run AROS or you can run it on a brand new power PC or a small pico itx. The versatility is the heaviest argument for me.

If it walks, flies or swims you can use it if it's x86. That's that extra ability that makes it compelling to me.

Alright, and you're going to hire the people needed to code for the billions of possible combinations of hardware, right?

x86's strength is also it's weakness, too many choices, too difficult to support as/is.  Hence my other suggestion that if one did go x86, to limit the support to a few mobo/peripheral combinations.
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Offline cicero790

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2008, 11:17:32 AM »
@downix
In my experience I found it easier working by a desk than walking blindly in traffic.  

I don’t believe desktops are out. By the time your small devices are capable of what a power machine can accomplish  today, that power machine will accomplish ten times the handheld for a smaller price with the best games and apps following its demand.

I don’t buy your logic here.

You said: Alright, and you're going to hire the people needed to code for the billions of possible combinations of hardware, right?

I said now: Ask sammuraicrow. I think he is implementing that LLVE thing or something that will make AROS very processor independent indeed. I haven’t looked at it. And I don’t understand it, but I think it will be important for the future development.

Finally: This is an Amiga community. If AROS can run the Amiga software then the programs that are liked can be used. Final writer and so on. And it is possible to make better versions because the added power of AROS and the hardware under it.


 
Have a hard time seeing the end of the world.
The only thing that is sad is that all expert programmers should work on one single OS, but that is a personal opinion. So much more could be accomplished in shorter time that way. But....



EDIT several hours later: It was LLVM.
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Offline downix

Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2008, 11:45:49 AM »
Quote

cicero790 wrote:
@downix
In my experience I found it easier working by a desk than walking blindly in traffic.  

I don’t believe desktops are out. By the time your small devices are capable of what a power machine can accomplish  today, that power machine will accomplish ten times the handheld for a smaller price with the best games and apps following its demand.

I don’t buy your logic here.

You said: Alright, and you're going to hire the people needed to code for the billions of possible combinations of hardware, right?

I said now: Ask sammuraicrow. I think he is implementing that LLVE thing or something that will make AROS very processor independent indeed. I haven’t looked at it. And I don’t understand it, but I think it will be important for the future development.

Finally: This is an Amiga community. If AROS can run the Amiga software then the programs that are liked can be used. Final writer and so on. And it is possible to make better versions because the added power of AROS and the hardware under it.
 
Have a hard time seeing the end of the world.
The only thing that is sad is that all expert programmers should work on one single OS, but that is a personal opinion. So much more could be accomplished in shorter time that way. But....

You continue to miss the point.  The CPU is nothing, nada, irrelevent to the arguement.  The arguement above was cheap systems.  Well, cheap systems can have the same CPU family, sure, but they likely will have different chipsets, pic controllers, CMOS settings, SATA controllers, networking capabilities, GPU's, DSP's... even multiples of each.  To make any OS work with such a large number of possible hardware combinations is not work to be taken so lightly.  Look at AROS, even now it has support for a narrow range of hardware.  

I did not say Desktops are out.  I did say that they are not where the growth is.  If you want to release a new platform, the desktop is an also-ran.  Microsoft's OS dominance is wearing out due to the desktop becoming an older market, no longer do you have the rapid growth to enable an edge in for a share of the pie.  That ship has sailed, much like the workstations did in the 1990's and the MiniComputers in the 1980's.  You'd make as much sence demanding a port to the VAX or PDP-11.

The Amiga was about being the next big thing.  Frankly, there is no NBT in desktops.  There is, however, in smaller, lightweight products.  And the Amiga, and MorphOS, are uniquely situated to such markets.  Instant-on, multitasking, and scalable.  And the weakness of the design, not so relevent anymore once you get to that scale.
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Offline Piru

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Re: MorphOS on x86???
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2008, 11:45:57 AM »
@cicero790
Quote
LLVE

How exactly does that solve the driver issue?