Wither Natami?

[the_leander]

Woo, and bonus points for using an Atari as the example  :lol:

...And the crowd goes wild!

 :-D

[B00tDisk]

Atheist wrote:
No memory protection and self modifying code I think are assets to the field of Artificial Intelligence.

Any expert system that couldn't keep itself from overwriting its own memory would be effectively worthless.  Every thought would essentially be a tapeworm, destroying data as it was created.

You hate MP because Amiga OS doesn't have it, and in your mind if AOS doesn't have it, it is at best unneeded or "bad", see your views on multi-user environments.   :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

[Atheist]

SamuraiCrow wrote:
@Atheist

The RAD: reboot option will not be needed badly if the Natami comes with a big enough FLASH memory for a HUGE KICKSTART that holds most of the OS.  You're RAD: device will only need the s: directory since most of the rest of the OS will be running from the Kickstart.

Hi SamuraiCrow,

That is an excellent option.

That, and when NatAmi60 become an ASIC, the boot would be brought to the amount of time it takes to do a diagnostic check of ram and whatever else at boot up, to maybe about 1.5 seconds!!! Awesome!

[Atheist]

B00tDisk wrote:

Any expert system that couldn't keep itself from overwriting its own memory would be effectively worthless.  Every thought would essentially be a tapeworm, destroying data as it was created.

Hi B00tDisk,

And yet my Amiga 2000 using AOS1.3.3 runs?

And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

[Atheist]

Piru wrote:

No memory protection and self modifying code I think are assets to the field of Artificial Intelligence.

How exactly?

Hi Piru,

Software collects data and makes decisions on what to do, but how about generating new code to make decisions from logic as opposed to merely collecting data and reacting? Saving these new program segments and running them. Then perhaps joining some together. This is how I think AI could work.

Also, I think that all software should have the capability to examine all address space if it wants to. Something about limiting this in any way seems to violate my sense of empowerment through knowledge, or restriction of, making certain things not possible. I want to be able to locate a string in memory, and even if it's in another program, be able to change it. I want and expect absolute control of MY computer. Other users? No, there's only me, myself and I, and that's a total of 1.

So, I can't say when it would be useful, but I want the long hand of one program to be able to interfere in another's activity, because it opens new avenues of operation, but this behavior must be used in the most careful of ways to avert meltdown.

[Atheist]

alexh wrote:

Atheist wrote:
Correct this statement if it's wrong:

AOS is NOT the only OS that can restart running in RAD: independent of ANY external devices. ;-)

My Atari ST is happily using one.

Hi alexh,

When I used TOS, I couldn't even find the RAM: disk???

So, is Atari ST just as good as AOS then? I think not!

[amigadave]

@the_leander,

Seems your wish has been answered.  He is posting all over the place now (I don't know anything about your "invited one").

[alexh]

Atheist wrote:
When I used TOS, I couldn't even find the RAM: disk???

Where did you look?

Atheist wrote:
So, is Atari ST just as good as AOS then?

Apples and Oranges mate. You can use a recoverable RAM disk though.

[Piru]

Software collects data and makes decisions on what to do, but how about generating new code to make decisions from logic as opposed to merely collecting data and reacting? Saving these new program segments and running them. Then perhaps joining some together. This is how I think AI could work.

Memory protection does not prevent any of this, though what you wrote here has no extra benefit whatsoever for AI (naturally you CAN use code generation, but there is no benefit from it).

Rest of your comments deserve no reply, I'm afraid.

[the_leander]

amigadave wrote:
@the_leander,

Seems your wish has been answered.  He is posting all over the place now (I don't know anything about your "invited one").

Less a wish and more of a calculated risk in saying his name  ;-)

As for invited, I meant that in the same way as "speak the devils name and he shall appear"...

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[the_leander]

Atheist wrote:

B00tDisk wrote:

Any expert system that couldn't keep itself from overwriting its own memory would be effectively worthless.  Every thought would essentially be a tapeworm, destroying data as it was created.

Hi B00tDisk,

And yet my Amiga 2000 using AOS1.3.3 runs?

Something that isn't an AI.

Atheist wrote:
And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

Right up till the moment that your mate asks you to use your computer for a bit, and whilst there, decides to start poking around, discovering all these wierd looking files, and promptly deletes, renames or moves em depending on desire.

I've seen it happen too many times. Hell, I've had to undo the damage enough that it simply isn't funny any more.

There are perfectly good reasons for having a tiered system of access on a computer, stopping people with too little knowledge to understand and just enough to do damage is one of them.

I like when I let someone access the net through my systems that I don't have to worry about the integrity of my documents and pictures.

If it's what you want, great, fantastic and more power to you. Thing is though, the rest of the world, that being one with a clue of course, want their *own* accounts, customised to their particular likes and dislikes without having to worry about other people using the machines preferences. The like that on the odd occation that their application does croak, it doesn't bring down the rest of them and the computer with it, they just restart the app and get on with things.

[B00tDisk]

Atheist wrote:

B00tDisk wrote:

Any expert system that couldn't keep itself from overwriting its own memory would be effectively worthless.  Every thought would essentially be a tapeworm, destroying data as it was created.

Hi B00tDisk,

And yet my Amiga 2000 using AOS1.3.3 runs?

Please explain, using all your powers of comprehension and computer knowledge, how AOS 1.3 is in fact an AI or expert system.

And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

Psh.  You don't even understand what multiuser is about.

[shoggoth]

Atheist wrote:
And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

Multi vs. single user OS has very little to do with memory protection. It's about preventing a crashed application from bringing the whole system down, or to offer some form of protection against hacks, spyware or whatever.

I don't know how you got self modifying code into the equation.

Memory protection can be flexible enough to allow one process to access memory belonging to another process. This is how it works in freemint; where each allocated memory block is tagged with access rights.

Like someone said, it seems like you don't like memory protection just because AOS lacks this functionality.

[kolla]

the_leander wrote:
There is nothing and no one here changing words except you, who seems to insist on being able to inform people what their nationality is based on continental plates.

I never mentioned nationality, but obviously you are confusing nationality and geography.

We are not European because it is simply not part of our identity, our culture has very little in common with any other country in Europe, or indeed with America.

Ah yes, the British - so unique, so special - unlike the homogenous group of Europeans that live around them.

Oh and the whole all or nothing thing, knock it off, it makes you look an even bigger prat then you do for thinking yourself capable of telling other people what their nationality is based on either geo political ties or tectonic plates.

Again, this is not about nationality, dumbass. And it's not about your precious feelings. It's all about your location and tectonic plates - yes. And whether you like it or not, the British share history, language, culture and just about anything with most European countries.

You can be as non-european as you like, the rest of the world will still consider the british isles as part Europe.

It's just not cricket old bean  :-D

No, it's also about driving on the left side of the road, clinging to the emperial system and walking around in tweeds. And sticking the nose in the sky, thumping your chest and claiming "I'm British - not European!"  :lol:

[B00tDisk]

shoggoth wrote:

Atheist wrote:
And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

Multi vs. single user OS has very little to do with memory protection. It's about preventing a crashed application from bringing the whole system down, or to offer some form of protection against hacks, spyware or whatever.

Let us now patiently await Atheist's scathing reply that the Amiga has no such problems and blah blah blah blah because it's so awesome (ie, such a hyper-obscure platform that nobody can be even be bothered with pranking it).  

Like someone said, it seems like you don't like memory protection just because AOS lacks this functionality.

yep.

[A6000]

Even the ground we walk on is refusing to be part of Europe, the British Isles are moving away from Europe at the rate of about 1cm per year. :-D


EDIT: Sorry that should be half an inch per year, the Euro brainwashing is starting to have an effect.