Next step for Amiga(like)OS?

[amigadave]

bloodline wrote:

amigadave wrote:
@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

Well that's much more interesting! For all your talk about cooperation and unity in the Amiga scene, and now you claim not to like AROS... Now why would that be?


And you call me negative... The ironing is delcious!

How childish.  You mean "irony" not something you do to straighten out the wrinkles in your shirts.

I sort of knew it was a waste of time to start this thread, but I am not the only one who has voiced a desire to see the Amiga community reunited under one common direction. Be that AmigaOS4.x, AROS, MorphOS2.x, or my preference, as I stated in the first message of this thread, which is none of the above, but instead to have everyone working on a new project OS that is better than all the above. That not being reality, now or in the near future, my first choice of the available "Amiga-Like" alternatives would be MorphOS2.x.

I will not waste any more of my time replying to messages like yours above.  Write whatever you want about me, I know that I very seldom write anything negative about actual or potential Amiga projects, and make a conscious effort to keep it that way.

Pointing out that, in my opinion, many of your messages tend to be in opposition to one Amiga related project or another was just stating the obvious and was not constructive to this thread. Have a nice day!  :-P

[bloodline]

amigadave wrote:

bloodline wrote:

amigadave wrote:
@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

Well that's much more interesting! For all your talk about cooperation and unity in the Amiga scene, and now you claim not to like AROS... Now why would that be?


And you call me negative... The ironing is delcious!

Where is there a negative comment in anything I have written about AROS?  Simply stating that it is not interesting to me, or that "I am not a fan of AROS", is not putting it down or saying that people should not waste their time with it.

I don't care if you like AROS or not, but everything you have suggested publicly is emboddied by AROS... so why don't you like it?

The Mattathias project is more interesting to me than AROS at the moment.  That may change some day when AROS has more to offer.  

More to offer than hardware independence, commnity control and free use for anyone who wants to use it?

All I asked in my post was, why don't you like AROS, you haven't answered that.

If you really want to know more about why I am not an AROS fan, I will gladly let you know via PMail, but don't want to put "real" negative remarks about another part of the Amiga community here on the forums.  

So what you are saying is that you have "real" negative feelings about AROS... AROS is EVIL...

But then I doubt you really want to know anyway, this is just your childish retort to my remarks.

Childish? Because I have identified a logical inconsistancy in your argument?

P.S. You mean "irony" not something you do to straighten out your shirts.

So you don't watch the Simpsons then... I guess this explains a lot.

[amigadave]

Painkiller wrote:
IMO MOS 2.0 is allready the OS that we as an Amiga community should be leaning towards. It currently has readily available hardware to run on + it is a very finished OS. Ofcourse there are still bugs to be get rid off.

I have MOS 2.0 currently installed on my PEG II and I haven't had this good "Amiga" experience in years. The system is responsive, it support modern USB devices out of the box etc. AOS is far behind and it has little to none hardware to run on etc. There isn't a single good program to run on AOS that wouldn't have been ported to MOS or have a better alternative at MOS.

MorphOS-Team really delivered this time, just hope you guys can solve Efika problems and port it to mac mini soon.

Given the reality of the current situation, I agree and I am leaning toward MorphOS2.x as being the best "Amiga-Like" solution that is available now.  

As for porting it to the Mac Mini, don't stop there, port it to every PPC Mac ever manufactured and then after that is done, port it to everything else.

I take it from your message above that MorphOS2.0 is much more stable on your Peg than some of the reports we have been seeing of it running with difficulty on the Efika, is that correct?

[Painkiller]

I take it from your message above that MorphOS2.0 is much more stable on your Peg than some of the reports we have been seeing of it running with difficulty on the Efika, is that correct?

Yes MOS 2 is very stable on PEG II tough I haven't yet used much of it features. But it has been on 24/7 for two days now. Only program that I have had crash on me is Sputnik. From what I have been reading on Morphzone, MOS 2 is currently quite unusable on Efika, so I really really hope they fix the remaining issues soon so that Efika owners can really see what MOS 2.0 is about.

[ognix]

Mmmmhhh... not sure about posting my thoughts on this thread, but here I am.

Personally after my thread "Amiga OS 4.0 for 68k" that lead to the conclusion this is NOT AN OPTION ANYMORE, ANYWAY, I'd like just to say the thing we need is to concentrate in one way, one commond way or we'll go towards the end as "just retrocomputing platform" (we already are somehow).

For this purpose I support the idea of AROS because for its (open) nature could run on any platform (Amiga also - see AFA Project), especially on the most widely available hardware x86 based.

MorphOS is here, Amiga-like OS, probably good and sufficiently stable and mature (I admit I didn't test it personally - just seen), but there's one thing I don't like in it: THE IDEA OF CUTTING COMPLETELY with the rest of the Amiga community and platform, creating a big split.
This is something very bad I think, even if in these times of Amiga Inc. legal problems, cutting bridges with the "official way" is something should be done (but not with the community).
...and being just PPC is not a good insurance for long living.

Regarding AmigaOS 4.1, from the announcement, it seems they want to create another split, changing filing system, adding memory protection, etc; much probably for "technically proving" they are not working on the original sources anymore: but using the Amiga name, logo and so on, will lead them to loose the legal battle with Amiga Inc., so no future here.

Apart for all of these words, let the correspondent developers work for the best option.

Regards,
   Luca "OgniX".   \8^)

[Hans_]

Painkiller wrote:
I have MOS 2.0 currently installed on my PEG II and I haven't had this good "Amiga" experience in years. The system is responsive, it support modern USB devices out of the box etc. AOS is far behind and it has little to none hardware to run on etc. There isn't a single good program to run on AOS that wouldn't have been ported to MOS or have a better alternative at MOS.

Far behind? I think not. Comparing the MOS 2.0 and AOS 4.1 feature lists, I think that they're in a pretty similar state actually.

Hans

[Hans_]

BTW, combining the coding teams from MOS, AOS4 and/or AROS would hit one fatal snag: deciding which bits from which OS to keep. No-one wants to see their hard work discarded, and, for the most part, each OS has its own version of many features. Some have said that AOS4 has nothing to offer the MOS team. Likewise, MOS has nothing to offer the AOS4 team.

I think that it's funny how most seem to assume that cooperation would mean the AOS4 team joining MOS. If something like that were to happen, they'd probably start a new OS effort with a new name, which would just happen to include components from both OSes.

What could have been neat is if all Amiga-like OSes used the same driver model for all devices. That way, a graphics driver for one, would work on the other; ditto for USB, audio, etc. But, we'd be stuck with the same problem. All sides would say "great idea, my standard is the best, use mine."

Hans

[SamuraiCrow]

amigadave wrote:
@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

Mattathias will use LLVM as its optimizer and code generator (unless you have some better documentation on how to make a GCC frontend) so we'll need LLVM ported to all platforms that Mattathias will support.  AROS is just the first stepping stone.

[amigadave]

Hans_ wrote:
BTW, combining the coding teams from MOS, AOS4 and/or AROS would hit one fatal snag: deciding which bits from which OS to keep. No-one wants to see their hard work discarded, and, for the most part, each OS has its own version of many features. Some have said that AOS4 has nothing to offer the MOS team. Likewise, MOS has nothing to offer the AOS4 team.

I think that it's funny how most seem to assume that cooperation would mean the AOS4 team joining MOS. If something like that were to happen, they'd probably start a new OS effort with a new name, which would just happen to include components from both OSes.

What could have been neat is if all Amiga-like OSes used the same driver model for all devices. That way, a graphics driver for one, would work on the other; ditto for USB, audio, etc. But, we'd be stuck with the same problem. All sides would say "great idea, my standard is the best, use mine."

Hans

One team joining the other is not what I had in mind when I started this thread.  I was just wondering what it would be like if all Amiga(like) developers joined together to create a "NEW" OS that is better than everything any of them has done separately, and yes, I agree that there would be many disagreements as to which standards to use, or which way to do certain things.  That is why it will never happen.  Developers have large egos that are not easily set aside and who would manage such an effort and control all those egos to make progress on such a large project (my vote goes to Carl Sassenrath :-o ).

I also agree that there is not much of a difference in the features and functionality between AOS4.x and MOS2.x, but there are two very large differences between the two OSes, 1) MOS2.x is not tied up in a court battle (at this time, and hopefully never in the future) and 2) there is at least one mobo in current production that it runs on.

I think the first to release their OS to run on the many versions of the PPC Macs that are both in good supply and are more powerful than any other hardware that either AOS4.x or MOS2.x have run on to date, will have a large advantage over the other (except for the legal entanglements that such a move would create, especially for AOS4.x), but that is another topic.  

[amigadave]

SamuraiCrow wrote:

amigadave wrote:
@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

Mattathias will use LLVM as its optimizer and code generator (unless you have some better documentation on how to make a GCC frontend) so we'll need LLVM ported to all platforms that Mattathias will support.  AROS is just the first stepping stone.

I am not against AROS development.  The only point I was trying to make in regards to that message was that MorphOS2.x is far ahead of AROS in many ways and I would rather have Mattathias completed for MOS2.x than have you working on LLVM for AROS.  If the AROS work must be done first, it won't make a big difference to me, I am just looking forward to the completion of Mattathias, so thank you for working on it.

[Hans_]

amigadave wrote:
I also agree that there is not much of a difference in the features and functionality between AOS4.x and MOS2.x, but there are two very large differences between the two OSes, 1) MOS2.x is not tied up in a court battle (at this time, and hopefully never in the future) and 2) there is at least one mobo in current production that it runs on.

Not quite true. According to Genesi the Efika production ceased in September 2007. There is some existing stock, but no more are being produced. I'm assuming that the MOS team will have access to the Efika 2 when it's available, but the Efika is not actually in production.

Hans

[AeroMan]

Hans_ wrote:

... but the Efika is not actually in production.

Hans

Well, another dead end. I believe MOS people probably have support from Genesi to develop for their products, but wouldn´t it be a good idea to port it to PS3 ?

Some people raised the idea of Power Macs (as we always do) but they are out of production also.

PS3 is a powerful platform, it is in production and there are lots of reasons to buy it other than running a OS. There is also a nice installed base.

AROS or MOS in PS3 would rock :bow:

[Hans_]

@AeroMan

AeroMan wrote:

Hans_ wrote:

... but the Efika is not actually in production.

Hans

Well, another dead end. I believe MOS people probably have support from Genesi to develop for their products, but wouldn´t it be a good idea to port it to PS3 ?

Some people raised the idea of Power Macs (as we always do) but they are out of production also.

PS3 is a powerful platform, it is in production and there are lots of reasons to buy it other than running a OS. There is also a nice installed base.

At least there are millions of Power Macs in existence. My vote would be for a PowerBook/iBook (the PowerPC version), as I would like an Amiga laptop. Both Amiga OS 4, and MorphOS (IIRC) have been shown with beta ports to PowerPC Mac hardware. So it's likely to happen.

AROS or MOS in PS3 would rock :bow:

Any AOS4 on PS3 wouldn't? :-P

Hans

[trekiej]

How do Amigans feel about Syllable?
How Amiga like is it really?

[SamuraiCrow]

amigadave wrote:
I am not against AROS development.  The only point I was trying to make in regards to that message was that MorphOS2.x is far ahead of AROS in many ways and I would rather have Mattathias completed for MOS2.x than have you working on LLVM for AROS.  If the AROS work must be done first, it won't make a big difference to me, I am just looking forward to the completion of Mattathias, so thank you for working on it.

I can run AROS hosted on my Linux box and run the test executables from there.  I can't do that type of cross-development with MorphOS since I don't own an Efika or a Pegasos series.

[uncharted]

amigadave wrote:

If AInc. had any proof they would have used it and not backed off.  

The mistake I believe you and many other people have made here is equating Amiga Inc's actions with logic.  Nothing that has happened, especially lawsuit-wise has made much sense so far.

The question still remains.  The fact that question has been dodged once again, does not inspire confidence.

Just because nothing has happened yet doesn't mean that it couldn't in the future.  I for one sincerely hope it never happens.