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Author Topic: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)  (Read 25754 times)

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Offline itix

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #269 from previous page: June 11, 2010, 10:44:49 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564066
@itix
I agree.  I bought MorphOS to run on my PegII out of curiosity and because I believed the crap that "others" were spouting on here about how MorphOS would turn your system into a high performance machine.  Well, that was a load of crap and I expected more from an OS that cost me more than $200 USD.

You had a chance to try MorphOS for free before purchasing.

Shame that you didnt like it. It is very good OS.

Quote
And until Piru publishes some real sales numbers I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success.

In Amiga scale it is. No new hardware would generate so much sales. It leaves out users who only want new hardware but you can not please everyone. Choose your target and stick on it. But it is good that we have choices, isnt it? AROS, MorphOS and OS4 fill different needs. And of course the good old original AmigaOS 3.1 on emulators and perhaps Minimig.

Before I continue I should mention I am MorphOS developer and biased.

Quote
He also tried to get me to believe that MorphOS wasn't a "business" venture.  That's the typical dodge when someone doesn't want to admit that their "business" isn't being successful.  I told him that I'd believe that MorphOS wasn't a business when they decided to stop charging for it.  I'd wager that fewer than 300 copies of MorphOS for the MacMini have been sold.

What is "successful" business in your books? It is successful as in it generates more income than there are expenses. It is not successful as in it would bring Amiga out of niche. Amiga is small and stays small.

Maybe you mean MorphOS as in business would be declining or does so in the future. Well, does it matter? Do you really expect commercial breakthrough? Do you think successful Amiga business exists?

I wouldnt mind if there was new, inexpensive and powerful hardware available for MorphOS. If you have ideas I am all ears.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 10:59:27 PM by itix »
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Offline Kronos

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #270 on: June 11, 2010, 11:34:23 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564104
@tone007
 The fact that you and possibly the MorphOS folks don't have a business license when selling products doesn't mean that you're not running a business.


Payments are due to "Ralph Schmidt Softwareentwickling" (maybe there even was an GmbH added to it) so yes technically it's a buisness. That doesn't mean it's a buisness in the common  sense (read someone making a living of it).

Number of licences sold aren't a really well kept secret (never were), but that not the point.

In order to make a product commercially viable that involves as many people as MorphOS (or OS4) even if they are working only parttime one would have to cash in atleast 500000Euro ...... not just once, but for every year the projects runs.

There hasn't been that kind of money in the Amiga-market eversince C= went down, and therefore it doesn't really matter wether they port MorphOS to old Macs,x86,ARM or Z80 as it would all be just the same hobby-project with minimal financial gains as it is right now.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
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Offline ferrellsl

Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #271 on: June 12, 2010, 12:03:26 AM »
@itix
 

I never said MorphOS was a bad OS.  I said I was disappointed by all the hype generated by several people on this board who acted like it would supercharge 5 yr old technology.  The disappointments are in the lack of robust, useful software to run on MOS.  Useful being a decent office suite and a mature browser that supported modern standards.  I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software.  I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS.  I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money.  Yes, OWB is out there now and is becoming more mature all the time but I shouldn't have to pay nearly $1000 and wait nearly 3 years to surf the web with my system.  That's just ridiculous.

And if you look at my earlier post from 4:29 today, you'll notice that I'm in violent agreement about the size of the Amiga market and what constitutes success there.  LOL

As for new, inexpensive and powerful hardware for future Amiga OSs including MorphOS, I've always thought that x86 is the future, like it or not.  ARM isn't an option in my opinion.  It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end.  I like AROS and think it's the future of Amiga-like OSs.  The x1000 will die a slow death if it ever reaches market.  And the guys from MorphOS like to keep things shrouded in mystery but hint that ARM is likely to be the next CPU running MOS.  I hope not.

@johnklos
See my post for 4:29 today.  We're in agreement about what constitutes success in the Amiga market place.
 

Offline Pyromania

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #272 on: June 12, 2010, 12:35:51 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564188
@itix
 
ARM isn't an option in my opinion.  It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end.


100 million sold iOS devices would disagree with you.
 

Offline itix

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #273 on: June 12, 2010, 01:06:37 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564188

Quote
The disappointments are in the lack of robust, useful software to run on MOS.  Useful being a decent office suite and a mature browser that supported modern standards.  I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software.

I can certainly accept that statement.

Quote
I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS.  I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money.  Yes, OWB is out there now and is becoming more mature all the time but I shouldn't have to pay nearly $1000 and wait nearly 3 years to surf the web with my system.  That's just ridiculous.

There indeed is problem with custom hardware: once you buy one you are stuck with it.

Quote
As for new, inexpensive and powerful hardware for future Amiga OSs including MorphOS, I've always thought that x86 is the future, like it or not.  ARM isn't an option in my opinion.  It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end.  I like AROS and think it's the future of Amiga-like OSs.  The x1000 will die a slow death if it ever reaches market.  And the guys from MorphOS like to keep things shrouded in mystery but hint that ARM is likely to be the next CPU running MOS.  I hope not.

Now we are talking. There is no solution for PPC which could fill all three requirements. x86 could be an option but removes backwards compatibility. ARM is only another obscure custom hardware from user POV.

I am not worried if Amiga and/or MorphOS dies. We all die some day.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline Stevo

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #274 on: June 12, 2010, 01:30:34 AM »
@ferrellsl

"I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software. I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS. I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money"

Well, you should have. I mean, who in their sane minds would fork out that money expecting something that could compete with whatever you seek, decent software wise. You seem to blame the platform for not getting you the sw you need, while afaik noone never promised or guaranteed you such thing.
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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #275 on: June 12, 2010, 02:21:54 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564188


As for new, inexpensive and powerful hardware for future Amiga OSs including MorphOS, I've always thought that x86 is the future, like it or not.  ARM isn't an option in my opinion.  It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end.  I like AROS and think it's the future of Amiga-like OSs.  The x1000 will die a slow death if it ever reaches market.  And the guys from MorphOS like to keep things shrouded in mystery but hint that ARM is likely to be the next CPU running MOS.  I hope not.

x86-64 is an option as far as availability goes yes I agree, but not from a value for money point of view. You can't build an i7 or i9 rig cheaper than other companies. Have you checked the prices of i7 CPUs? The CPU alone costs more than an entire PS3 Bluray player let alone a 360 Arcade console. A company who is intelligent will find alternatives and save themselves the effort of transferring OS code between little endian and big endian CPUs, not a trivial task at all. IBM's Xenon PPC 3 core CPU is the modern day 68000 of the modern age to Intel's 286.

If AEON missed a trick by not copying an extremely cheap and powerful solution four times cheaper mhz per mhz using existing and readily available Xenon PPC 3 core CPU inside Xbox 360 that's their fault and nobody elses. That thing is as powerful as a high to mid range Intel i7 monster rig of equal performance. And it is PPC so Hyperion can carry on coding PPC too.

It's not that expensive to design a motherboard around  ATI 1900/3.2Ghz GPU/512mb DDR3 700mhz memory is it? Certainly better than pissing in the wind building the esoteric  overpriced x1000 that will be dead in 12 months....which probably cost more to develop.



Quote from: ltix;564188

Now we are talking. There is no solution for PPC which could fill all three requirements. x86 could be an option but removes backwards compatibility. ARM is only another obscure custom hardware from user POV.

I am not worried if Amiga and/or MorphOS dies. We all die some day.


Erm I beg to differ, a 3.2Ghz Triple core PowerPC Xenon CPU that goes into the $200 Xbox 360 motherboard is the perfect processor for Amiga OS4 hardware if they refuse to migrate to x86 and stick to a PPC core.

And your comment about not being worried if Amiga died....an allied soldier fighting in WW2 may not be worried about dying but it was his duty to destroy the axis of evil BEFORE he died ;)

Quote from: Stevo;564201

Well, you should have. I mean, who in their sane minds would fork out that money expecting something that could compete with whatever you seek, decent software wise. You seem to blame the platform for not getting you the sw you need, while afaik noone never promised or guaranteed you such thing.


Hmm...Microsoft Windows....Microsoft Internet Explorer.....Microsoft Office....do you see a pattern here? ;)

He is quite right to be annoyed that in the space of 36 months the persons receiving three times the cost of a Windows XP licence have done nothing to address a basic requirement...a decent modern browser. Bit ridiculous in 2010. Commodore should have been working on a browser in 1994!


Why the hell is it that any company with a key role to play in the world of Amiga IP/ownership is utterly utterly clueless and stupid and we would be better off if they just didn't bother?

If an engineer from the x1000 team wants to come and explain why they didn't take apart an xbox360 motherboard to create a basic Xenon/X1900/DDR3 BUS similar design would be very enlightening. Other companies do it all the time, buy a market leading price/performance product and reverse engineer it on a basic level to improve their own products price/performance level.

(not saying you need to reverse engineer a compatible 360 motherboard, just use the same 3 basic components of Xenon/ATI/DDR3 memory)
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #276 on: June 12, 2010, 02:54:18 AM »
Quote from: Stevo;564201
@ferrellsl

"I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software. I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS. I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money"

Well, you should have. I mean, who in their sane minds would fork out that money expecting something that could compete with whatever you seek, decent software wise. You seem to blame the platform for not getting you the sw you need, while afaik noone never promised or guaranteed you such thing.


Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use.  I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years.  I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything.  I was looking for s system that was useful.  I'm still waiting.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #277 on: June 12, 2010, 03:00:00 AM »
@itix

"Now we are talking. There is no solution for PPC which could fill all three requirements. x86 could be an option but removes backwards compatibility. ARM is only another obscure custom hardware from user POV."

Well, UAE could always be integrated into the OS just like it's been done in AROS.  That would maintain backwards compatibility.  And at some point you have to cut backward compatibility loose.  Apple did it with OSX and even MS has ditched backward compatibility to a large degree.  But with very little new Amiga s/w development going on, you DO have a point in regards to backward compatibility.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #278 on: June 12, 2010, 03:08:49 AM »
Quote from: Pyromania;564190
100 million sold iOS devices would disagree with you.


An I bet there are less than 3 people on this board who can even name a device with an ARM CPU installed unless you're talking iPhone.....so yes, it obscure.  I probably have one embedded in my alarm clock or my calculator.

In my opinion, for AOS to survive, Hyperion needs to get out of the hardware business and focus on OS development for whatever hardware the market will support.  And for MOS to survive, the MOS dev team needs to ditch PPC and port the OS to something that at least is currently still under production.
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #279 on: June 12, 2010, 03:21:46 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564215
....

In my opinion, for AOS to survive, Hyperion needs to get out of the hardware business and focus on OS development for whatever hardware the market will support.  And for MOS to survive, the MOS dev team needs to ditch PPC and port the OS to something that at least is currently still under production.



Tend to agree with that statement, in principle.  But if you embrace truly popular hardware then you are stuck with all the issues of disparate addon hardware and associated drivers that can make a good OS feel unreliable.  
I think the Microsoft principle of driver certification has merit.  But IMO MS tries to keep most of the people happy most of the time, which would be too big a bite for a company like Hyperion:  Choosing select quality providers is the key, so a Hybrid of what they are trying to do now on more popular but select hardware would see more positive results. IMO.

BTW: Aren't there distributions of Linux, BSD and good ole Symbian(Hand held I know) for ARM.?

Gertsy
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 03:27:24 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline persia

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #280 on: June 12, 2010, 03:24:10 AM »
THe trouble is that it's a small market, the leftover Mac Minis probably could saturate it for our lifetime.

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Offline Fab

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #281 on: June 12, 2010, 04:10:29 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564212
Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use.  I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years.  I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything.  I was looking for s system that was useful.  I'm still waiting.


I just love how you discard all the programs that have been developed or ported for MorphOS. Just in case you wouldn't know, MPlayer is a capable DVD player (and it has a builtin GUI, before you bring that kind of argument), and i want to believe OWB isn't totally useless, and it even does things FireFox can't yet (like playing HTML5 video on youtube, for instance).
 

Offline gdanko

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #282 on: June 12, 2010, 05:09:50 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564066
@itix
I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success.


Well, I'll put it this way. I am cheap. I have two mortgages, two kids with a third on the way. My wife stays home with the kids. And *I* liked the demo well enough to buy it for my G4 Mini. I'd say it was a success if they were able to get me to open my wallet. :)
 

Offline gdanko

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #283 on: June 12, 2010, 05:13:32 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;564212
Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use.  I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years.  I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything.  I was looking for s system that was useful.  I'm still waiting.


Define decent software. Decent seems relative to me. MorphOS does what I need it to do. Web, email, I can SSH to my server, I can remote desktop to Windows. Whoa, no PC games? Whoops.. I have 1000s of old Amiga games to enjoy and if I need something modern I have a PS3. I am not a "gamer" so that aspect is more or less moot. MorphOS is completely usable on a day to day basis.
 

Offline koshman

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Re: I think OS4 CAN be run on MAC MINI (USABLE)
« Reply #284 on: June 12, 2010, 07:45:12 AM »
Quote
An I bet there are less than 3 people on this board who can even name a device with an ARM CPU installed unless you're talking iPhone....


Wait, you're kidding, right? 90% people on this forum are technoids and you think they don't know what's powering their phones? And not just iPhone, my good old Mpx200 is also ARM based. Other than that - my NDS, PPC Loox, N800. I would still prefer a move to x86, but you can't deny ARM is used in virtually everything and is therefore far from obscurity.
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