A1200 Freezing problems...

[mfilos]

Hi guys,

I have an A1200 revision 1B mobo with an Apollo 1260@66mhz accelerator with 64MB RAM.
After I had my 1240 upgraded by PG succesfully and running great I discovered that from time to time my Amiga freezes and I have to reset. This happens EVERYTIME I run WhichAmiga and sometimes on MUI programs, MagicMenu etc.
Despite SysInfo and SysSpeed didn't give me any problems, I tried MemTest and saw that I got some errors in my Memory modules. I decided then to change my SIMMS to new ones. I got a set of 4x32MB SIMMS that I used and everything worked just fine with the same freezes though.
I then realised that it could have been the PSU that I was using from an A500. I guessed that maybe FastATA+ScanMagic+Subway could cause this instability due to lack of power.
Yesterday I received at last my DBox, Mediator, Voodoo3, SB128, NIC so I guessed it was the only way to find out!
Everything worked just fine and run without problems with Picasso96, USB works just fine, accelerator just fine but guess what?... Same freezes in WhichAmiga or sometimes on WB screen on Boot.

I haven't made a post all this time since I didn't knew about whether is was a Memory problem or PSU...
Now though... I'm kinda out of ideas except one!
The only thing I can imagine would be a mobo revision thing as timing issues. The fact that it's neither a 2B or 1D.4 (in order for me to perform the timing fixing hacks) doesn't leave me with options of what to do.
Since 1B is a really old mobo revision, does it require BOTH timing fixing hacks? Does it requires something else, or it's a general issue?
Does anyone having an Apollo 1260 with a revision 1B mobo had the same issues or is it another problem?

I find it extremely irritating not being able to use my Amiga after investing so much money
I don't have a problem searching for another mobo (1D.4) but I wanna know for sure that I won't have a problem or in the best case... If I can make my current mobo to work flawlesly with my current setup

Cheers and thanks in advance

[amigakit]

A1200 1B motherboards are stable and generally a good revision to have.

In our experience, Apollo boards vary in stability.  A good place to start it to check that the 14-DIL oscillator is making a firm connection with the board.

Ensure that the correct 060 library is installed in your System LIBS:

[mfilos]

Thanks for the reply...

PG has very nicely attached Oscillator female pins on the Apollo Board for me to change easily wherever I wanted the Oscillator to the native 50Mhz one in case I had problems with the 66Mhz Oscillator.
I already tried with the native 50Mhz without any other difference than the speed decrease in SysSpeed and SysInfo.

As for Libs I installed the ones that PG supplied in the disk. I don't remember correctly but I think I also tried the LIBS that AmigaRecource.cx had but no difference again
I think the LIBS are ok. Can anyone PM me a link with his working LIBS to be 100% sure that it's not the LIBS as a first start?

Still it's odd that SysSpeed and SysInfo run ok and WhichAmiga freezes the system while displaying "Evaluating System"

[amigakit]

Thats the point: when the Apollo has an oscillator that isnt soldered in- the legs can move and not make a good connection- causing instability.

[amiga1260]

I have a Blizzard 1260. When I use OS 3.9 with Boing bags 1 and 2, my A1200 with OS 3.9 crashes. Try the  SKIPROMUPDATE with you setup.

Try to run Workbench 3.1 and run those crashing programs, when those doen't crash, then your problem is a software problem.

[CLS2086]

I also think about libs problems.
Which ones do you have and which setpatch ?

You should also think soon about a bigger and newer psu. I destroyed an A500+ "light" psu with a 1230/IV very loaded.

[Damion]

@mfilos

I had similar issues, the machine would hang (sudden black screen) during boot, or shortly after while running something CPU intensive, regardless of clock rate. Adding juice to the floppy connector solved the problem for me. (Only happens with one of my A1200 motherboards :shrug:) As has been pointed out though, I would certainly check software first.

[mfilos]

@CLS2086
Atm I'm running in an DBox tower so my PSU is not an issue since it's 350W. Apart from that my Libs are the ones that PG supplied to me via a floppy once he returned my board that upgraded from 040 to 060.

I made some progress also:
I tried booting in WB3.1 (without the 040 & 060 libs) via Floppy and WhichAmiga runs now displaying no FPU and MMU not in use. Dunno if that is supposed to be ok since the libs are not present. Fact is that I don't get a freeze :S

I tried putting 040 & 060 out of libs in DH0 in order for the System 3.9 to boot without them to see what it will do.
System booted just fine... So I putted them back :S

You thing that this is the Libs issue for sure?

If so, where can I get the original ones for Apollo 1260? AmigaRecource DMS file?

Any other guesses?

[Damion]

mfilos wrote:
Atm I'm running in an DBox tower so my PSU is not an issue since it's 350W.

Cool. In some cases though, the expansion port can't supply enough juice for the card to run reliably (there is a voltage drop between the PSU port and the expansion port). Plugging a floppy connector from your PSU to the floppy connector on your A1200 motherboard will help (fixed random "hangs" in my case). Actually, this is probably a good idea to do anyway.

I tried booting in WB3.1 (without the 040 & 060 libs) via Floppy and WhichAmiga runs now displaying no FPU and MMU not in use. Dunno if that is supposed to be ok since the libs are not present. Fact is that I don't get a freeze :S

I tried putting 040 & 060 out of libs in DH0 in order for the System 3.9 to boot without them to see what it will do.
System booted just fine... So I putted them back :S

You thing that this is the Libs issue for sure?

If so, where can I get the original ones for Apollo 1260? AmigaRecource DMS file?

The libs from PG are the original libs, and should work fine. Make sure you're using the correct 040 lib, you want the (very small filesize) "dummy" 040 lib as opposed to the normal one (for 040 cards).

-edit- If you like, you can try Thor's libs, they work fine on my 1260 card.

[scuzzb494]

Hi

I have an Apollo 060 and the only problems I had was power and a conflict with a PCMCIA slot and an CD-ROM drive...

On that revision.... There have been issues with certain boards [ see below ]. However there may be issue with the Apollo or the board, and some how you need to isolate one or the other to be sure ...

[ From Eyetech when they sold A1200s ]

The Eyetech tower has conflicts with the  1.D.4 and 2.B boards as these were designed to take corrected versions of the Gayle and Budgie chips. The main production boards in the UK Rev 1.D.1 has onboard provision for hardware workarounds to fix the main bugs. This board works fine with most combinations of expansion hardware and is the one that Eyetech test expansion products on before shipment.

Eyetech themselves however made the modifications to the Amiga A1200 Magic Packs since they were made available from Amiga International in late 1997. The mod circled on the motherboard shown on the page from my website below is the mod to this 1.D.4 board made by Eyetech to make it usable in a tower. This resistor is not evident on any of the other motherboards I have seen.

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz185.htm

MOTHERBOARD REVISIONS:
REV 1D.4 Budgie REV -01
Remove E123C and E125C from the A1200 motherboard
Budgie REV -02
Remove E123C and E125C from the A1200 motherboard
Remove XR358 470 ohm pull-up resistor
-> Add 470 ohm pull up resistor at pin 43 of U, ie the Alice chip

Personally I would try another motherboard.

scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com

[kreciu]

I have the same problem... Apollo 040/33 and A1200 1d.1?!!

Random freezing, sometimes after 10 min, sometimes 6 hours... Sometimes Amiga will freeze in BOOT MENU!!! I always had this  "problem"... I'm tired of that.



 :-?

PS. red lights are not helping

[rkauer]

kreciu wrote:
I have the same problem... Apollo 040/33 and A1200 1d.1?!!

Random freezing, sometimes after 10 min, sometimes 6 hours... Sometimes Amiga will freeze in BOOT MENU!!! I always had this  "problem"... I'm tired of that.

 :-?

PS. red lights are not helping

 If you did the timing fixes (I had to do it on mine 1D1 board to run an Apollo 1240/40), the problem is related to overheat!

 Install a better heatsink and fan, even using a "pipe" to orient the air flux.

[Damion]

OMG, WhichAmiga crashes my rig too! Piru, WTF?? :lol:

Actually, it seems to have something to do with my RemApollo/modified KS setup. When I use the Mu tools for remap/etc, WhichAmiga works fine. It also works fine with a bare 3.1 install and Apollo CPU libs, and again with *no* CPU lib. (I'll see if I can narrow down what does cause the crash.)

Another thing I just remembered, later versions of SetPatch (at least 44.38 here) load the 68060 library directly, so you don't need any 68040 lib in that case.

[Damion]

-D- wrote:
OMG, WhichAmiga crashes my rig too! Piru, WTF?? :lol:

Actually, it seems to have something to do with my RemApollo/modified KS setup. When I use the Mu tools for remap/etc, WhichAmiga works fine. It also works fine with a bare 3.1 install and Apollo CPU libs, and again with *no* CPU lib. (I'll see if I can narrow down what does cause the crash.)

Another thing I just remembered, later versions of SetPatch (at least 44.38 here) load the 68060 library directly, so you don't need any 68040 lib in that case.

OK, weird. At first I thought there was a clash between exec441 and WhichAmiga, as WhichAmiga would crash using a ROM modified with exec441 (and compiled with Remus), yet no crash with a clean ROM "grab".

Turns out, WhichAmiga crashes with my funky combination of using RemApollo with the MMULibs/MuFastZero (discouraged in RemApollo docs) -- but ONLY if the ROM has been compiled with Remus! With a remapped clean grab, there is no crash. Split the ROM and compile (without changing a thing, aside from perhaps the order of the ROM contents), and WhichAmiga crashes.

Anyway, sorry to get a little off topic. Bottom line in regard to WhichAmiga crashing and the Apollo 1260: It should not, using the Apollo lib, Thor's lib, or *no* CPU library at all, on clean 3.1 or 3.9 installs. (Remember that 3.1 will need the dummy library, as the computer will crash during boot with the wrong 68040 library.) If it does, there may be a hardware fault/timing issue somewhere. (In the case of having a bunch of expansions, you definitely should add juice to the floppy connector.)

[mfilos]

Thanks for the support...

My Setpatch is 44.38 and my system has nothing more than BB1+BB2, MUI, drivers for FastATA/Subway/Mediator/Picasso96 and some progs like DOpus,ShapeShifter.
I tried Thor's Libs with no success. Gave me an error on line 2206 iirc - and that setpatch can't be patched. Anyway I manually copied the 060 lib of that pack but no difference.
My libs are the correct Apollo 1260 libs with a dummy (small file) 040 lib and another (unused i think) 68o4o.library (with o instead of 0 - large one).

Just a little notice before I try it since I haven't got it 100%. You advise me to give a little juice to the floppy connector. You mean the default power connector that supplies the floppy in desktop case? So, I just supply power from a PSU floppy connector --> mobo floppy power connector??? Will it be ok?