Don't email Jens - Clone-A limited beta production run.

[Schoenfeld]

TheDaddy wrote:
Can you quickly summarise please?

It's not that easy to do "quick" if you're talking about a totally different principle of computers.

A-Clone: what is it and its specs?

A-Clone: There is no such thing. However, I have a project called Clone-A. This is the internal summary name for the project "reverse-engineering the Amiga set of chips for inclusion in various products". I do have boards that plug into the real sockets and they work in any combination with the original chips (just as a proof that I do the exact same inter-chip-communication as the original set), but I have no plans of selling chip replacements.

Plans are to make a new machine that is living-room-compatible. Something silent (all-flash based) in a nice case that lets you play games. You can choose between various processor speeds and chipsets - not on a by-unit-basis, but on a by-game-basis, as the same machine will have it all built-in. One game works better with 68000@7MHz and OCS, another game takes advantage of the 030 command set, fastmem and AGA. Clone-A technology will provide all this.

Knowledge gained from reverse-engineering the chips and inter-chip communication has already been used on the Indivision AGA flickerfixer.

C-Clone: is this an improved C64 clone? Specs?

You probably mean "C-One". It was meant to be a "C64 on steroids", but never reached that point. Back when the board was designed, it was meant to be an 8-bit only system for running C64, Amstrad/Schneider and VIC-20 software. With the new expander board, the 8-bit limit is broken, as the Minimig port shows. The C-One with the extender card will be used for public beta testing the Clone-A technology sometime next year. The Minimig core will be released next week, maybe already this weekend.

The C64 core for C-One has reached a compatibility level that is better than many emulators already. You can plug real SID chips (up to two of them!) to the board and use both from the C64 side. Both NTSC and PAL are supported, you can switch between the video modes while the machine is running (yes, the whole timing model is being changed while the machine runs!). If you always wanted to see all the nice PAL demos, this is your chance.

C-One is an ATX board with small changes. You need to provide a case, power supply, a CF card, PS/2 mouse and keyboard, monitor and some skill, as the case needs minor modifications.
The monitor must be VGA, and if you want to watch PAL demos, it should support a vertical frequency of 50Hz (for example compatible with old Amiga-scandoublers in PAL modes - Indivision AGA is not a good test here, as it can output PAL in 62.5Hz).

Jens

[Framiga]

Plans are to make a new machine that is living-room-compatible. Something silent (all-flash based) in a nice case that lets you play games. You can choose between various processor speeds and chipsets - not on a by-unit-basis, but on a by-game-basis, as the same machine will have it all built-in. One game works better with 68000@7MHz and OCS, another game takes advantage of the 030 command set, fastmem and AGA. Clone-A technology will provide all this.

no words! respect Jens! :-)

[skurk]

bloodline wrote:
Jens did a lovely talk on the subject... the video is somewhere...

Maybe this is the video you are thinking of?

It's a great video anyway, and answers a lot of questions that I were about to ask.  I think everyone should watch it.  It's almost a full hour of Clone-A talk, both technical and non-technical.

[ChaosLord]

Go Jens!  Go!
Hooray for Clone-A!   :banana:

[tonyyeb]

Schoenfeld wrote:

tonyyeb wrote:

So how close are we to a fully working (purchasable!) Clone-A?

Far, far away. The project is growing and growing, the user interface is taking up lots of resources, and I have just put two more people on the project. It's HUGE and it's worth waiting for.

Jens

Great news! I am glad the project is still alive and even gathering pace! I know you can't answer this with any certainty but when are we likely to see something (like beta tester hardware)? 2009?

[arnljot]

Schoenfeld wrote:
Plans are to make a new machine that is living-room-compatible. Something silent (all-flash based) in a nice case that lets you play games. You can choose between various processor speeds and chipsets - not on a by-unit-basis, but on a by-game-basis, as the same machine will have it all built-in. One game works better with 68000@7MHz and OCS, another game takes advantage of the 030 command set, fastmem and AGA. Clone-A technology will provide all this.

What is a little confusing to me is what I get if I now buy a C-One with a FPGA extender.

Will it be "Clone-A capable" without the nice livingroom compliant case and formfactor, or is it a different product.

My understanding that this is a kind of "beta tester program"?

Will it be able to run the minimig core, or does it do Clone-A? Or is it something completely different?

[jj]

From what I can gether, this is just the c-one board and the fpga extender card

minimig core to be released this week or next

clone a beta test in the future

its just the boards ready

[Schoenfeld]

arnljot wrote:

What is a little confusing to me is what I get if I now buy a C-One with a FPGA extender.

Will it be "Clone-A capable" without the nice livingroom compliant case and formfactor, or is it a different product.

My understanding that this is a kind of "beta tester program"?

Will it be able to run the minimig core, or does it do Clone-A? Or is it something completely different?

It runs Minimig "now", and it'll run parts of Clone-A later (that is, the Amiga chipset and a 68k processor, making it a vanilla machine with a scandoubler and a harddisk). However, it will not be capable of being the final product, as the final Clone-A will have 24-bit colour, more fastmem, and an Indivision-AGA-like VGA output (always over 60Hz, no matter what screenmode).

Yes, it's kind of a betatester board, and it will be abandoned at some point in Clone-A development. However, it will still be able to run Minimig then (including enhancements that we're already working on), and you still have the possibility to run all the other cores, including the beta versions of Clone-A, the C64 core, VIC20, Amstrad/Schneider, turbo CPC and maybe more to come.

Jens

[TheDaddy]

@Jens

How does it compare to the Natami?

Would you be interested in me designing a case for it?

Thank you for all your answers :-)

[Darrin]

Schoenfeld wrote:

Yes, it's kind of a betatester board, and it will be abandoned at some point in Clone-A development. However, it will still be able to run Minimig then (including enhancements that we're already working on), and you still have the possibility to run all the other cores, including the beta versions of Clone-A, the C64 core, VIC20, Amstrad/Schneider, turbo CPC and maybe more to come.

Jens

Is sounds great.  How easy is it to swap between the different cores?  Do you just change an SD card or does anything need manual "reflashing"?  On the C64 side, can you connect a real floppy drive such as a 1571?

[Schoenfeld]

TheDaddy wrote:
@Jens

How does it compare to the Natami?

It exists and you can buy it. I haven't seen Natami running, and neither has anyone I personally know. Also, it's a different concept: Natami wants to create a new platform, with all the problems that brings. Who is making new software for that new platform?

Would you be interested in me designing a case for it?

Sure - that case would also fit other ATX boards (C-One is "almost" ATX), so your market is huge :-)

Jens

[Schoenfeld]

Darrin wrote:

Is sounds great.  How easy is it to swap between the different cores?  Do you just change an SD card or does anything need manual "reflashing"?  On the C64 side, can you connect a real floppy drive such as a 1571?

All cores can be kept on the same CF card. You have a graphical menu when you switch on the machine, and you choose the kind of machine that you want the thing to be "now". It's not re-flashing, but more like loading, as FPGAs are SRam-based chips.

Instead of one reset button, you have two kinds of reset-buttons on the C-One: The reset as you know it resets the machine that you have started. The "re-config" button brings you back into the menu where you choose which machine you want it to be.

The C64, but also the VIC20 can connect IEC devices like printers, the 1541 or the 1571 floppies. The accuracy of the C64 emulation is so good that it works with floppy speeders and track-loading demos.

However, it might be more desirable to load software from the CF card, because you have it in there anyway. Amiga stuff in ADF format can be loaded, and the C64 can be launched "with the program already loaded", so you don't have these slow loading times. The C-one combines the comfort of an emulator with the accuracy of real hardware.

Jens

[TheDaddy]

@Jens


>>Would you be interested in me designing a case for it?

>>>Sure - that case would also fit other ATX boards (C-One is "almost" ATX), so your market is huge


I have designed this for the Minimig:

www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

so I would be delighted to make something custom for the Clone-A :-)

Thanks again.

[TheDaddy]

@Jens

So timelines are:

Consumer Clone-A.........next 6 months?

[Darrin]

@ Jens,

Thanks for that explaination.  It sounds great.  I was thinking about getting that VGA adapter for the C64 you announced, but the C-One might be a better choice.

[Schoenfeld]

TheDaddy wrote:

so I would be delighted to make something custom for the Clone-A :-)

Oh - sorry, misunderstanding, I thought you wanted to design something for the C-One. The C-One ia "almost ATX", but Clone-A will have a custom form factor, NOT ATX.

The exact form factor is not known yet, as the project evolves.

Jens