Philosophical question related to AROS vs OS4

[Gulliver]

I see it this way:

AmigaOS 4.x : It is a an easy transition from AmigaOS 3.9, everything is familiar. It has the "Amiga" name. But it is still pretty immature, as it seems to be a victim of constant crashes. Anyway, Hyperion seems commited to fix them in the long run.
Still it has lots of quirks such as no USB 2.0 suport, something which any decent semi-modern OS has. It is propietary and closed source, meaning it depends entirely on one Company, and if that company dies, then that is most likely gonna be its end. It has a high price tag and is tyed to an old underpowered PPC architecture which is hilariously expensive.

AROS : It is not a straight-thru transition from AmigaOS 3.9, but nothing an average user cannot do. It is still  immature, and was a once stagnating project, that it is now progressing very quickly. It has really good USB 2.0 support. It is open source and freely available, it is married with the cheapest and fastest architecture we have today, x86 PCs (But it can be divorced from it if needed).

Speaking about emulation, OS4 emulation is a little bit flakey, programs that hit the hardware, which means most games and demos, will not work, or at best work with issues. AROS emulation it is far from perfect, as it is not completed, but it is really good. I suggest you see it for yourself download the latest IcAROS distribution of AROS, and try it out. It is without a doubt better than OS4.

Performance wise, AROS beats the hell out of OS4. Its architecture gives AROS that freedom and power.


Bottomline: I am not biased by the love for an OS or the hate of another, it is what is. And still it is great to have them all.
Technically speaking OS4 still leaves a lot to be desired, but then a human choice on an OS, it is rarely based on its various technical aspects, but rather on the subjective personal experience/desires/feeling they see/get that they will particularly perceive as fullfilling in that OS.

As a sidenote, there is also something that needs to be clarified: The Amiga hardware and its AmigaOS are both long dead since about the time of both the Amiga 4000T and AmigaOS 3.1. All we have here, name it Pegassos, SAM, or even an AresOne, are "Amiga-like" hardware and that happens to be the same with MorphOS, AmigaOS 4.x and AROS. It is not that they are bad or evil, it is that they are not Amigas or AmigaOS, nothing against them, just "Amiga-like". Please dont be fooled by cheap marketing or passionate advocates.

My 0.02

[Manu]

@Gulliver

I would have said something but I don't need to. I agree with you 110 %.

.

[clusteruk]

Well since I came back to Amiga about two years ago, I have spent more money on buying real Amiga's than the cost of a Sam. This is because i always loved Amiga hardware but also to keep my A1000 company which is my favorite possession.

However, my comment is that Aros is the best successor to an Amiga running OS3.1 now and I cannot see that changing. Do not get me wrong I cannot wait to see if I can afford an X1000, but the Aros secret is that it cannot die again and will carry on forever improving now.

I believe apart from a small number of remaining issues, Aros is way better than OS3.9 on native Amiga, I have dropped back to OS3.1, and whilst OS4 is nice it has not moved far enough for me under single company control over the last 15 years. I understand the reasons and I will probably buy an X1000 but Aros is an Amiga safety net for me, it will always be around and develop the way the users want it too. Plus, like I have done a couple of times, if there is something you want done, you can make it happen with Aros by doing it yourself or paying somebody.

Steve

[fishy_fiz]

Just for the record, Icaros does not contain the upcoming UAE intergration. It does have something akin to gluae, etc., and is effective enough, but it's not the same thing. With the "real" (for lack of a better word) intergration things like screenswitching between AROS and AOS apps, AROS menus for 68k software, 68k apps in aros windows/screens, launching AOS apps from AROS Wanderer or shell (and vice-versa) and a whole lot more is available that isnt available through amibridge (Icaros'es makeshift/temproary solution), or gluae, etc. It isnt as seemless as MOS or OS4.x 68k emulation, but the end results are similar, albiet a different way of achieving this  (although 68k software will be more compatible and run faster on AROSes intergration method). Try running AGA software on an a1/sam/peg2/etc. using UAE. It's very slow to the point of being unusable for the majority of software, even for "stock" aga software. Dont even bother with something like Breathless, alienbreed3d, etc., even on a Mac Mini.

[Piru]

(although 68k software will be more compatible and run faster on AROSes intergration method). Try running AGA software on an a1/sam/peg2/etc. using UAE. It's very slow to the point of being unusable for the majority of software, even for "stock" aga software. Dont even bother with something like Breathless, alienbreed3d, etc., even on a Mac Mini.

Well, if I want to run such HW hitting apps or games I do it with WinUAE. WinUAE is superior to any other UAE, including AROS one.

[fishy_fiz]

Sure, but that wasnt the question. Also after a while extra performance becomes redundant for some things, so while Winuae will be faster than other UAEs, for things using custom chipset an user wont notice it if you give a system enough raw grunt (even the heaviest of aga games/demos appear to run more or less identically on both my Windows machine running Winuae (c2d@4.1ghz) and my AROS machine using e-uae (c2d@3.86ghz using only one core).

[Piru]

Also after a while extra performance becomes redundant for some things, so while Winuae will be faster than other UAEs, for things using custom chipset an user wont notice it if you give a system enough raw grunt (even the heaviest of aga games/demos appear to run more or less identically on both my Windows machine running Winuae (c2d@4.1ghz) and my AROS machine using e-uae (c2d@3.86ghz using only one core).

WinUAE still has the best configurability options, features and usability. It's not just about speed.

I agree, this is beyond the point. I rarely use any apps that'd require use of UAE. All my favorite 68k apps run directly inside MorphOS with full speed and integration (faster than they would with my WinUAE and C2Q 3.6GHz)

[hbarcellos]

Just for the record, Icaros does not contain the upcoming UAE intergration

So, when can we expect a build with the latest integration?

[clusteruk]

So, when can we expect a build with the latest integration?

Probably very soon after the finished Janus-UAE is fully released. It is now in debug and final testing.

[fishy_fiz]

I dont know. That's up to the j-uae author I guess. It's his work Hopefully though it wont be too far away, I'm just now getting my hands on latest build (non public) and am about to test it out.

[klx300r]

bit off topic, but I'm looking forward to installing the latest AROS package on a bootable partition on my Sam flex as I'd love to be able to dual boot OS4.1 and AROS :-)

One question I have is if I will be able to print via USB on my HP LaserJet 1012 (DOT4) via AROS ?

[EDanaII]

More philosophically speaking, the Amiga community has become so fragmented because the Amiga brand has been floundering for over 15 years.  But *if* Hyperion and partners can bring back respectability and reliability, should we all stand behind a sanctioned Amiga once again or continue in a fragmented manner?

The community will continue to be fragmented as long as Hyperion does not give them a machine with the price/performance ration they desire. AI made this mistake by delivering nothing, Hyperion will make it too if the X1000 is not reasonably priced.

Two cents.

[fishy_fiz]

@Klx300r
Sam version of AROS is getting some work done on it at the moment actually. I dont have one so I cant comment too much, but it appears it's getting some pretty heavy loving at the moment. As for printing, this is unfortunately one of the biggest pieces missing in AROS left. My printing needs are few and far between (apart from printing tech. manuals) so I dont follow this stuff a lot, but Im lead to believe half the pieces are in place, but not enough to actually print anything yet.

[klx300r]

@ fishy fiz

yes I've read about it and it looks great so far!...too bad about the printing as it's very important for me to be able to print via USB as that's how my office is set up...hopefully soon :-)

[amiga92570]

The community will continue to be fragmented as long as Hyperion does not give them a machine with the price/performance ration they desire. AI made this mistake by delivering nothing, Hyperion will make it too if the X1000 is not reasonably priced.

Two cents.

I agree, I will say that I do not get the arguments regarding the different OS versions. I think its great to have a variety of different developers. Choose which version suits you best and use it. It is unlikely any of them are going to be teaming up together so its not like they are wasting resources. If Hyperion were developing three different OS's I could see the argument that they should combine resources and develop one version, But that is not the case. I think the competition will likely help produce an up to date useful OS, and in that case were all winners.

[unusedunused]

More philosophically speaking, the Amiga community has become so fragmented because the Amiga brand has been floundering for over 15 years.  But *if* Hyperion and partners can bring back respectability and reliability, should we all stand behind a sanctioned Amiga once again or continue in a fragmented manner?

>But *if* Hyperion and partners can bring back respectability and reliability, should we all >stand behind a sanctioned Amiga once again or continue in a fragmented manner?

when the product is not good enough and the price is not ok, the support is slow or bad, wy should we stay behind it ?

thats always the trick of bad constructors to sell some crap under a good brand.See for example some fake rolex or something else.

it doesnt help the amiga when user accept anything.OS4 is the offical AOS, but its really a shame for that much money Preorder money, Marketing and support by devs and community flow in it since 2001 what is here.

OS4 is the only AOS System that support no USB2.

but whats here with OS4 are the great future announces.

Look at IBM/PS2 what happen with that.SO you can see if the price/quality is too bad, then there help also no nice brand.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_System/2

The PS/2's controversial hardware design was tied to a marketing strategy that was similarly unsuccessful. During the 1980s, IBM's advertising of the original PC and its other product lines had frequently used the likeness of Charlie Chaplin. For the PS/2, however, IBM augmented this character with a notorious jingle that seemed more suitable for a low-end consumer product than a business-class computing platform:

“How ya' gonna' do it?
PS/2 It!
It's as easy as I.B.M.”
“How ya' gonna' do it?
PS/2 It!
The solution is I.B.M.”
Another campaign featured the actors from the television show M*A*S*H playing updated versions of their characters from the series.[1][2]

The profound lack of success of these advertising campaigns led, in part, to IBM's termination of its relationships with its global advertising agencies; these accounts were reported by Wired Magazine (Issue 3.08, August 1995) to have been worth over $500 million a year, and the largest such account review in the history of business.

Overall, the PS/2 line was largely unsuccessful with the consumer market, even though the PC based Models 30 and 25 were an attempt to address it. With what was widely seen as a technically competent but cynical attempt to gain undisputed control of the market, IBM unleashed an industry and consumer backlash. The firm suffered massive financial losses for the remainder of the decade, forfeited its previously unquestioned position as the industry leader, and eventually lost its status as the largest single manufacturer of personal computers (ironically, only after it decided to deemphasize Microchannel), first to Compaq and then to Dell. Still, the platform experienced success in the business sector where the reliability, ease of maintenance and strong support from IBM offset the rather daunting cost of the machines. Also many people still lived with the motto "Nobody ever got fired for buying an IBM." The model 55SX and later 56SX were the leading sellers for almost their entire lifetimes. Many models of PS/2 systems saw a production life span that took them well into the late 1990s.
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