Amiga osX

[Lando]

I should mention that I own three original OS X licences/CD sets (one that came with my iBook, one that came with my G4 iMac, and one boxed retail copy that I bought from the Apple Centre Manchester).  

When I bought it I was not asked if I owned a Mac, I was not asked if I would be running it on a Mac, they were quite happy to let me pay my £100 and walk out of the store with OS X.

[MarkTime]

@amigamad,

I'm not surprised to see you in this thread supporting piracy.

The cd-media contains a copy of the code for your convenience in installing on your apple branded hardware.  If you think otherwise, you are wrong.  License agreements are a fundamental part of the software industry even in the UK.

You aren't being sold the cd-rom...you are being sold a limited use license.   Perhaps a concrete thinker has difficulty with this concept, but I'm telling you this is fundamental to the software industry, so look it up.

[MarkTime]

It's not apple's fault because they didn't assume people would break the agreement.

The person who breaks the agreement, guess what...thats their responsibility.

[lorddef]

@MarkTime

We get your point so shut up and stop being a w@nker.

[Step]

I have today written an email to the Swedish Competition Authority asking for clarification on this Apple EULA issue, will post their reply as soon as i get it.

[xeron]

I don't understand why you have to get on such a moral trip every time someone mentions running OS X on a non-apple machine, MarkTime.

It costs £100 to buy OS X. It costs apple pennies to duplicate the CDs, maybe a couple of pounds for packaging, and a small amount goes to the resellers. Result: Apple make money.

Now, if everyone who owns a Pegasos or AmigaONE thinks like you, none of them would buy OS X. If, however, they consider it acceptable to ignore a small clause in the EULA, Apple makes more profit. I really don't see a problem, unless you want to be pedantic for the sake of it.

Now, if someone downloads an ISO of OS4 from the net, burns a copy, and uses it, I really think that wrong, and I totally disagree with it.

However, if someone purchased OS4 for CSPPC and hacked it themselves to run on a Pegasos, guess what? I really couldn't care less. Good for them, I say. They've supported the efforts of hyperion, and increased the userbase of OS4. As long as they don't spread their hacked copy, that is.

Now, technically, both are illegal. However, only one is, in my eyes, immoral.

Your opinion has been made very clear, MarkTime, there is no need to post it over and over again in this thread.

[xeron]

Oh yes...

What Xeron, Peter Gordon meant to say, ....

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't mean to say that at all, you did.

[Casper]

What my fellow amiga.org members MEANT to say, was that running Mac OS X on an AmigaONE is illegal. It violates the EULA of Mac OS X.

I think that depends on where you live. I took a computer law course at university and if I understood it correctly any "contract" must be agreed to before you pay for your software in Sweden. Any other "contract" is invalid. So, the "click yes to agree" type of license/contract is meaningless here. It does not matter if you can return the software and get your money back.  Maybe it works the same in the rest of the EU too, I can't remember.  

DISCLAIMER: It's been a few years since i took that course so 1. I might remember incorrectly, 2. the laws may have changed since then.  Don't blame me if you get into trouble.  :-)

[MasterOfReality]

What?? How can that be a violation of EULA?? Apple got some sort of restriction saying you can't run OSX on a non-Apple product?

Yes.

And what does this discussion have to do with piracy?

Depends how you look at it. EULA violation is normally a civil matter, but installing an OS in violation of the EULA could be construed as making unauthorised copies, which is a criminal offence (Piracy).

[MarkTime]

@casper

If you don't think you have a valid contract, in the EULA, in your country.....Then you simply don't have a contract at all.  A contract to use the software on an AmigaONE, didn't materialize out of thin air, certainly.

Don't you see, no contract, means no contract!!!!

license agreements are valid in all euorpean countries, these types of arguments 'it's legal in my country' are very hard to counter, because I readily admit, I don't know the laws of every country of the world.  but its by and large BS.

europe and america both have very strong intellectual property laws, and don't allow piracy.

The reason I will be fairly vocal on this subject, is I am looking for practice in making a certain point clear.

Its obvious to me, that many people feel piracy is OK,  and thats life....but many people don't really understand why its wrong, and so its good to sharpen ones skills on this point.

For example, spending $100 to buy a license for using Mac OS X on a single piece of apple branded hardware, allows you to use Mac OS X for whatever you want? nooooo, not really.

 can you buy a 10 person license and use it for 15?  Is that OK?  Can you buy an upgrade license for XP, and use it to make a full install on an OEM machine?

Of course, all these things are wrong...but now...looking at other threads, I see one thing....many of you are not against piracy in any form...you outright support it fully...and the arguments are just misdirection

@Xeron, Peter Gordon...if you are against piracy, you will say it, you can say it at any time.  

I know that you didn't literally mean to say you were against piracy, and I did put those words in your mouth...but anyone can tell from reading it I was facetious, and you've made it more than clear your feelings on the subject.  At no point did you take a stance against piracy...

feel free to do so at any time.

[mepmepmep]

Swedish Competition Authority? What's that? Svenska Tävlingsmyndigheten? Never heard of?

[Step]

konkurrensverket kanske låter mer bekant för en svensk :-D

[Stew]

  The point is the difference between Law and what is fair. Lawyers did not get the stereotype they have for nothing. They make the laws to keep themselves in a job. (I have a daughter finishing law school and she would agree).

    Same poin for the EULA. Is it legal to use OS10 on a non-Apple branded device. No  Is it fair to pay for it and be able to use on one. No

"can you buy a 10 person license and use it for 15? Is that OK? Can you buy an upgrade license for XP, and use it to make a full install on an OEM machine?"


  Noone would argue that this is unfair to the owner of the IP, as well as distributers ect..  But using a paid for , on one machine at time by the purchaser,  software seems fair to all. Unfair laws need to be changed. Perhaps this is the form of protest chosen by some.

   I have no desire ofr OS10 and am waiting for OS4 before purchasing an A1. If OS4 doesn't materialize so much for the A1. Feel sorry for the early adopters in that case.

Stew

[Tomas]

europe and america both have very strong intellectual property laws, and don't allow piracy.

Yes, but this is definitely NOT counted as piracy everywhere.... It is not here, i can install that OS on every piece of hardware i want, as long as i bought the cd.

American law does NOT apply to whole world..

Btw... In america you are not even allowed to record a tvshow for personaly usage on your digital box, to watch it later... This is a imorral sick law if you ask me... I wonder why they even sell boxes with recording ability over there..

[Valan]

The act of buying software is a bit misleading. As Marktime said we only buy a license to use it, and normally that is only on a single machine.  Enthasised by the use of HW or SW dongle.

My mother thought that was rediclulous until I said that when we enter an exhibition you only buy the right to look at the exhibits, we don't own them.

I wonder if it would really be ok if I bought a copy of OS4 and used it on an iMac. I doubt it because why would they build a dongle into the Amiga system?

I remember having a CBM 64 when I first heard the goldie "it only costs a few pence for them to copy and they sell the game for so much". It's a suprise people still think like that.

Now I am wondering how many unlicensed copies of old Amiga stuff there is, and we wonder why there are so little new stuff being developed.

Valan

[MarkTime]

Hey Tomas,

Guess what, all western european countries have  a concept of a license agreement and have laws to protect those licenses.

You believe you purchase a CD, and then you invent the license?  Wrong.

You think the license agreement isn't valid, and so you can change it.  You can unilaterally make it a license to run on AmigaONE.  Interesting, and so you can also upgrade your license to be a server license?  Can you also upgrade your license to change the name of it and re-sell it?  Can you upgrade the license from one user to two?

There is no country in the world where you can modify the license to your liking, simply because you don't like the terms of the license.  You have to have an agreement to use someone elses intellectual property.  If you don't want to make an agreement, then you can back away, and not use Mac OS X.  What you cannot do, is force Apple to accept your terms without any discussion or any agreement.  

If you think your country is like that, then you must believe your country has virtually no intellectual property laws at all.

You are wrong.  There is no country in the world that says by purchasing CD media you are then allowed to write your own terms on the software license.  If you think I'm wrong, just post a link to the laws you are citing.

In all european countries, Apple has the ability to enter into contracts and make software licenses.