Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: minimig 4000  (Read 8180 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alexh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Posts: 3644
    • Show only replies by alexh
    • http://thalion.atari.org
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2007, 05:06:52 PM »
Quote

A6000 wrote:
ECS is in the minimig FPGA which is used in place of the AGA chipset, it may be possible to reprogram this later to be AGA as I said in my earlier posts.

MiniMig is not ECS, it is currently a slightly buggy OCS. (Still great work though, a major achievement!)
 

Offline A6000Topic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 443
    • Show only replies by A6000
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 05:09:00 PM »
Quote

FrenchShark wrote:
- 2GB of Chip RAM will break compatibility, the Amiga architecture is limited to 8 MB of Chip RAM due to the memory map.


It should not break compatibility, the zorro III bus can have 1.75GB of fast ram, the 2GB ram would be used as fast ram with DMA and a smaller block of this ram is used for graphics and sound, whether that is limited to 2MB, 8MB, or more remains to be seen.
 

Offline A6000Topic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 443
    • Show only replies by A6000
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 05:15:22 PM »
Quote

downix wrote:
How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?


The responses to this thread have been so negative that nothing will be done.
 

Offline amigadave

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2004
  • Posts: 3836
    • Show only replies by amigadave
    • http://www.EfficientByDesign.org
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2007, 05:21:20 PM »
Quote

A6000 wrote:
Quote

downix wrote:
How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?


The responses to this thread have been so negative that nothing will be done.


Oh, that's a great, positive attitude!

Look at other threads, work is being done by more than one member and the MiniMig is going to lead to several different, enhanced projects.

It will take some time, but look at what has already been done, alone by Dennis in just one year, where no company, or group of developers has been before.  It has inspired others to take action and build on top of what Dennis has started.

Even Dennis is adding to what he completed by working on multiple adf support.

The future of Amiga development has never looked so good!
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline FrenchShark

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2004
  • Posts: 181
    • Show only replies by FrenchShark
    • http://www.arcaderetrogaming.com
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2007, 05:25:28 PM »
Quote

A6000 wrote:
Quote

FrenchShark wrote:
- 2GB of Chip RAM will break compatibility, the Amiga architecture is limited to 8 MB of Chip RAM due to the memory map.


It should not break compatibility, the zorro III bus can have 1.75GB of fast ram, the 2GB ram would be used as fast ram with DMA and a smaller block of this ram is used for graphics and sound, whether that is limited to 2MB, 8MB, or more remains to be seen.


Most of the games expect the Chip RAM to be located at 0x00000000. According to the memory map 10MB are available from 0x00000000 to 0x009FFFFF. So a max of 8MB of Chip RAM can be used (managing the remaining 2MB with the chipset will be a pain).
 

Offline FrenchShark

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2004
  • Posts: 181
    • Show only replies by FrenchShark
    • http://www.arcaderetrogaming.com
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2007, 05:29:10 PM »
Quote

alexh wrote:

Yeah right... NOT!

Emulation is good in a closed environment, as soon as you introduce external inputs, interrupts, exceptions etc. the house of cards comes tumbling down.

If it was possible and the speed was anywhere near a 50MHz 060 we'd have Dragon(?) boards by now.


According to my tests, the speed is near a 25MHz 040.
Maybe Elbox dropped the project or they are busy re-writing the KickStart with coldfire code.
 

Offline AJCopland

Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2007, 05:29:22 PM »
Quote

A6000 wrote:
Quote

downix wrote:
How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?


The responses to this thread have been so negative that nothing will be done.

Actually you're replying to Downix who has started to do something. He's right though that you've got to do these things in little steps because that's how you make sure that they actually get done!

Andy
Be Positive towards the Amiga community!
 

Offline AJCopland

Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2007, 05:41:37 PM »
Quote

A6000 wrote:

Well I will admit that this task is beyond me, but well within the capabilities of others on this forum. but I would start with the circuit and pcb design of the 4000D and:-
1. replace fast slot with cpu socket, this can accept 040 or 060 since there will be more 040's available than 060's. the programmable clock speed allows any speed version to be used.
2. replace AGA chipset with minimig FPGA.
3. implement memory, SDR is old and expensive, DDR2 may be more economical.
4. implement hard drive interface.

Job done?

P.S The PPC can go on a board plugged into the cpu socket.


Someone else has already stated it but you're talking about something like the Clone-A. Where you start by replacing each of the chips in an A4000D motherboard with fpgas and "just" duplicate the motherboard design.

That won't really work for several reasons. The main one being duplicating the motherboard design as it isn't really easy or possible for hobbyists and it's not economical for a professional company.

Don't let that be the end of the idea though.

What I meant in my reply was to start from the MiniMig v1.1 as your base. Decide what you want and then figure out what you'd need to do to change the v1.1 into the thing which supported that idea. Then you move onto the next part of it and do the same. Repeat until you've got all of your features and voila! You'll have got a MiniMig4000.

Also as someone already said, SD-RAM is still cheap and plentiful due to its use in just about everything from washing machines to set-top-boxes. Also for the speed of the 060 and PPC chips its plenty fast enough. DDR can come later but start off easy!

For the A4000D you'd want what? an '060? Ok figure out how to add that, just with pen and paper compare what the MiniMig has now and what you want it to have. Go and lookup the datasheet on the Freescale website and see if as alexh says it uses 3.3v or 5v for it's IO lines. If it does use 5v then you know that you'll need voltage shifting hardware.

Make all of the things that you discover into a list of things that you _reasonably_ think you'd need to do, but don't know how, to put a 68060 processor onto a MiniMig v1.1 physically. Don't even worry about the code used in the FPGA for now just think about that one small area.

Once you done that, come back and ask again about how to actually do those things or see if someone would be willing to design them for you. Basically get someone to sanity check them.

Andy
Be Positive towards the Amiga community!
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show only replies by HenryCase
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2007, 06:13:51 PM »
Quote
downix wrote:
How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?


An A2000 clone Minimig (with the expansion options) is what I see as the next major step forward for the Minimig. I'm working on something now that needs A2000 compatibility, so of course I'd say that!

A6000, the negativity is arising because you need to think practically about this project idea. I appreciate you've said that you're not able to help with the technical aspects of implementing your design, so why not do something about that? I've started to learn Verilog so I can help, using this tutorial, I recommend you do the same:
http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline amigadave

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2004
  • Posts: 3836
    • Show only replies by amigadave
    • http://www.EfficientByDesign.org
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2007, 06:20:32 PM »
@HenryCase,

Well said!

How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline Ral-Clan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 1979
  • Country: ca
    • Show only replies by Ral-Clan
    • http://www3.sympatico.ca/clarke-santin/
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2007, 06:29:00 PM »
It seems like we've had this same discussion dozens of times already.  There are several threads just like it on A.org.  Basically, someone says the minimig is underpowered/crap/great-but-could-be-better and then suggests some super fantastic minimig be developed straight away.  

The responses from those who actually *work* in electronics/computing hardware development are always the same: development takes time, in small, realistic steps.

I totally agree.  Zorro (or other expansion bus) first, then AGA, then a faster processor and onward.  Make sure each development works, then move onto the next step.  MiniMig A2000, MiniMig A1200, etc. etc. It takes little steps.

Even the Great Pyramid at Giza was built one brick at a time.
Music I've made using Amigas and other retro-instruments: http://theovoids.bandcamp.com
 

Offline amigakit

Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2007, 06:49:46 PM »
Work on Clone-A is still ongoing and progressing - but this project will hopefully make commercial Amiga hardware more viable.

Clone-A is intended to be a cycle exact representation of the Amiga hardware.
www.AmigaKit.com - Amiga Reseller | Manufacturer | Developer

New Products  --   Customer Help & Support -- @amigakit
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2007, 07:03:21 PM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Quote
downix wrote:
How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?


An A2000 clone Minimig (with the expansion options) is what I see as the next major step forward for the Minimig. I'm working on something now that needs A2000 compatibility, so of course I'd say that!

A6000, the negativity is arising because you need to think practically about this project idea. I appreciate you've said that you're not able to help with the technical aspects of implementing your design, so why not do something about that? I've started to learn Verilog so I can help, using this tutorial, I recommend you do the same:
http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html

If you want the CPU fast-slot I have the design 90% done with my neo-A500 sidecar slot design.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show only replies by HenryCase
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2007, 07:46:02 PM »
Quote
amigakit said:
Work on Clone-A is still ongoing and progressing - but this project will hopefully make commercial Amiga hardware more viable.


Amigakit, I'm glad to hear progress is still being made on the Clone-A, haven't had much news around for a few months, have you heard anything from Jens or Oliver recently?

Quote
amigadave said:
Well said!


Thanks amigadave! :-D

Quote
downix said:
If you want the CPU fast-slot I have the design 90% done with my neo-A500 sidecar slot design.


Thanks downix. As it happens it is the A2000 CPU slot that I need for my project. Is this really very similar to the A500 sidecar slot?

I don't want to say too much about my project at the moment, because it might not come to anything, still very early days. When I've got some concrete signs of progress I'll be posting on a.org for assistance.
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline downix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 1587
    • Show only replies by downix
    • http://www.applemonthly.com
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2007, 08:57:16 PM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Quote
downix said:
If you want the CPU fast-slot I have the design 90% done with my neo-A500 sidecar slot design.


Thanks downix. As it happens it is the A2000 CPU slot that I need for my project. Is this really very similar to the A500 sidecar slot?

I don't want to say too much about my project at the moment, because it might not come to anything, still very early days. When I've got some concrete signs of progress I'll be posting on a.org for assistance.

yes, only 2 pins different.  So, close enough that it can easily be adapted.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline Donar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2006
  • Posts: 168
    • Show only replies by Donar
Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 23, 2007, 09:57:56 PM »
Quote
According to my tests, the speed is near a 25MHz 040.

Out of interest, which Coldfire and 68k emulator do you use? And what code did you use for testing?
<- Amiga 1260 / CD ->
Looking for:
A1200/CF CFV4/@200,256MB,eAGA,SATA,120GB,AROS :D