Why can't a windows machine do it.

[Hodgkinson]

lol. Every time I look at a thread post here and get rid of the notification, a new one pops up just as quick...

[marcfrick2112]

@ bOOtDisk: Please tell me what 12MHz PC can run Wolf3D decently... I'm curious, what CPU and speed are you talking about .. even When I had 2 IBM made 486DX's, had major trouble running any 3D, or psuedo-3D games.... maybe I just don't care for PC's that much (and therefore don't put as much effort into solving thier problems...)

Another thing, by the time my Win XP machine boots up, I have my A1200T on, and connected to the internet, if I have only a few E-Mails, I would already have had time to check for mail....

(My PC: 2.1 Ghz Athalon, 512MB, WinXP. My Amiga 50Mhz 68060, 128 MB fast, 2MB chip, OS 3.9 w/ BB 1&2)
 :roll:

[Fransexy_]

a PC can't scroll smooth text even if your Running an Amiga Emulator!

But you can get a PC that scroll smooth text, run A pc emulator on Amiga  :-D  (at least scroll faster than a real PC, is the only thing that is faster on the emulator than on the real thing)

[TheMagicM]

you must be new to the demoscene on the pc.  I've seen a few cracktros that easily outdo Amiga cracktros.. please, the PC has way more firepower the the Amiga will ever have.  

 :horse:

[Tripitaka]

TheMagicM wrote:
please, the PC has way more firepower the the Amiga will ever have.  

Now come on....NEVER!! I hope one day to quote you on that.

  :lol:

[TheMagicM]

well if history proves correct I should be a-ok.  LOL

[LoadWB]

I'm more convinced video performance is an artifact of the architecture.  Let's look seriously at the heritage: the Amiga was designed from the get-go as video compatible, while PC are business with video and sound as a grafted-on after-thought.

I have my issues with the x86 architecture, especially around performance of commercial software.  Scene programmers aside, it seems that programmers do not really understand the limitations inherent in the underlying hardware.  There are simply too many hacks to make crappy interfaces work.  I will grant that PCIe and SATA are giant leaps forward in terms of hardware architecture.  But looking back: IDE is a crap foundation; PCI was a half-baked step back from VLB, even with progression; and AGP was deliberately crippled.  Pretty much all in the name of price-points.  Better hardware died or was relegated to

But there's still the x86 architecture which is now 24 years old (80386, 1984-ish) and should have died back in the 90s with the advent of 64-bit CPUs (DEC Alpha, PowerPC, and the later SPARCs.)  Of course, Intel can produce better marketing and business alliances to keep x86 alive than they can produce a 64-bit architecture.

I get tired of watching video, on broadcast TV no less, with pauses while buffers are repopulated.  I hated that a parallel device could bring the system to a stand-still.  Greeting a CD-ROM can bring Windows to a full stop, especially if there's bad blocks on the CD.  The list continues.  While it's true that there's a lot of software to blame, I maintain that the problem is based in hardware, and the software simply cannot handle, accommodate, or subvert the problems inherent in hardware.

[Tomas]

TheMagicM wrote:
you must be new to the demoscene on the pc.  I've seen a few cracktros that easily outdo Amiga cracktros.. please, the PC has way more firepower the the Amiga will ever have.  

 :horse:

Please give me a link for a 2d demo that can scroll properly. I know you can get close to perfect scrolling using opengl or directx, when nothing in the background eats up resources.

[motorollin]

Maybe part of the problem is the diversity of hardware. If software is written for x86 it has to be compatible with a huge array of chipsets, which is bound to result in compromise. On the Amiga, at least you know what hardware people will be using (to a degree - there is of course OCS/ECS/AGA).

--
moto

[Zac67]

Completely OT, but I was absolutely shocked when a very slightly scratched CD put in an Windows server (NT4 at that time) blue screened (!) that server, killing all network connections.

From that time on I can't take Windows seriously. It has improved, but it's still a pain.

[Roj]

@LoadWB

I couldn't agree more.


@motorollin

It's certainly a contributing factor. PCs without USB, a sound card and a graphics card can't do a whole lot, while an Amiga can still do what it does with or without those expansions. In some areas, Amigas will perform better without expansion hardware. Still, I'd love to have AmigaOS running on modern hardware.

Maybe the requirement of PCs to have so many features available only through expanded hardware caused, in part at least, the hardware diversity you're talking about. Instead of just needing an expansion device to enhance the computer, PCs need certain expansions just to function. Some expansions will work better than others obviously, so even a basic PC has hardware variations.

Everything beyond audio beeps, and white text on a black background, was an afterthought on PC hardware. It leaves the door open to myriad ways to get things right, and also to get things wrong. With Amiga hardware, when two cards conflict, a PIV and an A4091 for example, you choose one and put the other someplace else. But you don't need either one. On a PC, when your graphics card has a conflict with your motherboard, you're hosed until you get a card that doesn't have that conflict.


@Zac67

I think the only people who take Windows seriously are those who've never used anything else. ;-)

[KThunder]

put your amiga into 640x512 mode with 16 colors or 256 with aga and see how stuff goes.

an svga screen at 1280x1024 and 24 bit color depth transfers ~120 megabytes per second at 30 frames over the bus to scroll stuff. it also requires cpu intervention.

my wifes computer is a 750mhz athlon classic that had an s3 agp card in it. doing just internet stuff was annoying because of scrolling so i put an old nvidia tnt2 card in and at 1024x768 24bit it is smooth. my computer has an ati 9800 pro and is good to 1600x1200.

i  build all my own machines however. if you buy a store bought computer is most likely drowning in crapware and spyware and maybe even viruses.
buy a copy of xp home do a fresh clean install with new drivers for everything and see how it does.

[TheMagicM]

Please give me a link for a 2d demo that can scroll properly. I know you can get close to perfect scrolling using opengl or directx, when nothing in the background eats up resources.

Ok, let me look for some stuff that'll run under Linux.

EDIT: my bad, you said windows.  nevertheless, let me look around.

[Hodgkinson]

Re x86 processors...
I have a friend in the world of programming (Machine code...) who absolutely hates the x86 architecture. He'd go for 68k any day if he had to choose between the two.

Besides, what does dual core say to you? ... To me it sounds like a bad way of saying that they've run out of ideas so they're just going to start bolting processors together until they run out of silicon. A new architecture might just be a good idea :idea:

Hodgkinson.

[Tomas]

TheMagicM wrote:

Please give me a link for a 2d demo that can scroll properly. I know you can get close to perfect scrolling using opengl or directx, when nothing in the background eats up resources.

Ok, let me look for some stuff that'll run under Linux.

EDIT: my bad, you said windows.  nevertheless, let me look around.

I dont mind some examples for linux either.

[Tomas]

Besides, what does dual core say to you?

To me it says that they have kinda reached the speed limit per core with current technology, so to speed things up they instead give you two cpus in one. I personally welcome dual core, as it really improves multitasking which is one step closer to what amiga was with it's custom chipset.
The amiga was in a way a multicore system as well, just that each chip had a specific task to do.