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Author Topic: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?  (Read 5527 times)

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Offline Varthall

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2007, 07:13:49 PM »
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leirbag28 wrote:
What an Amiga is is NOT a matter of opinion.
no matter what anyone thinks an A1200 is............an A1200 is still an A1200 with whatever specs it has.

There's no question about what Amigas were in the past. What differs in opinion is what are today's Amigas (or if there are any). This IMHO all depends on how everyone experiences/have experienced the Amiga, and what makes feel them it's unique. Some feel that Amiga was unique because of its hardware, some others feel the OS alone was more important, and others think the philosophy behind AmigaOS was the most important part.

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Offline murple

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2007, 07:31:53 PM »
I'd say an Amiga is a computer with a hardware design developed from the original Amiga and running (or at least capable of running) an OS developed from the original Amiga OS, and which is capable of running most software (allowing for differences in OCS/ECS/AGA) written for the classic Amigas without having to run an Amiga emulator. So, as far as I'm concerned that means only the machines made by Commodore and Escom, and of course the pre-Commodore development systems (Joe Pillow) built by Amiga.

The OS part of it is a bit fuzzy... a real Amiga needs to have the hardware part of the OS (KickStart ROMs), but while they generally run the Amiga OS (Workbench) they can run other OSes like Amiga Unix, Linux, or even the various custom "OSes" that some NDOS: game/demo floppies use.

If some company were to go back and try to develop a new system by updating/extending the old hardware design which was backwards compatible with Amiga software including the OS, that would kick ass. I doubt it will ever happen though.

The companies calling themselves Amiga post-Escom are just people buying and exploiting a name, selling products with almost no connection to the original. Say you have a good friend named Joe. You really like Joe, he's a reliable and interesting guy. Joe gets drunk and jumps off a 20 storey building to his death. Bob is walking down the street and sees the remains of Joe's body bleeding on the sidewalk. Bob whips out a hunting knife and skins Joe, removing his skin and leaving the bloody rotting carcass on the sidewalk. Bob then makes a suit out of Joe's skin and shows up at your house saying "Hi, I'm Joe. Let me come in and hang out with you." That's pretty much what Amiga Inc. is today.
 

Offline murple

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2007, 07:40:24 PM »
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Waccoon wrote:

2 - It has multiple interface choices, with an elegant balance between the CLI and GUI.  Linux totally fails at this.


I'd have to strongly disagree there. A well designed Linux system has a very elegant CLI/GUI balance/interaction. In many ways it surpasses AmigaOS in that regard. However, a poorly designed Linux system can ruin this. Someone who is very familiar with unix can set up a fantastic balanced system, and for people who arent gurus, these days there are a good number of distributions which are set up nicely in this sense... Fedora, Ubuntu, and others do a good job of setting things up for newbies. You may need to look at a few distros to find one you like.

For what its worth, as configurable as Linux and X are, I suspect someone could set up a Linux system that does an excellent imitation of AmigaOS as far as the UI look and feel. You're not likely to be able to do that with Windows or Mac, since those systems both pretty much force you into a narrow interface design with only limited customizability.
 

Offline persia

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2007, 07:48:42 PM »
Yeah, what is a 21st Century Amiga?  What's the point of custom chips when you have graphics cards now with a minimum of 256 Mb and running up to a gigabyte onboard?  Can Amiga build something to compete with a ATI FireGL V7350 1GB workstation graphics card?  They need to leave the graphics to the experts.

Amiga also need to move to intel/AMD multiple cores.  Apple realised that, when you are small you can't push the manufacturers, they follow their own agenda.  IBM PowerPC will never produce a high end laptop chip 'cause the money is in the game stations.  Intel & AMD are drive by computer needs.

The computer industry has matured a great deal, it's hard for an Amiga to make a mark, there's no modern software, Toaster won't impress Final Cut users, for example.  And video is digital nowadays anyway and HD.  You need an application that an Amiga does better than a PC or Mac, most of the really good alternative programmers are in Linux and they can't build a killer app, how can Amiga with it's $25,000 OS and $10,000,000 stadium do it?  

Amiga can probably stand as retro, the Minimig, if real, is a great step in that direction, small is good.  But again outside of retro what will bring people back?  A cute OS?  I spend all of 10 minutes a week worrying about my OS, I use it to load programs.  I code in Dreamweaver and test it in Safari.  Who cares what the OS is or does.  Yeah I'll open a terminal to use grep once in a while but not that often.

Harware development is expensive, ACK is one person, and he can't even deliver a $499 system that wouldn't have been state of the art in 2000.  Sadly there's no way forward, Amiga is an outsourcing company, that's it.  Time to move along and remember the Amiga as it was, cutting edge and building the future, this sad rump in the corner bears it's name but that's it.
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Offline murple

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2007, 07:51:09 PM »
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unite wrote:
A modern PC will not run software of 10years ago but this isn't seen as a problem as the hardware and software have both progressed together.


Not exactly true. You can run plenty of very old PC programs on a modern Windows PC. In the case of some old DOS games/apps where timing is essential, modern CPUs may run far too fast, but you can run a program to slow the CPU... similar to the Degrader you could use on Amiga 1200/4000 systems to run old A1000/500 games.

Quote
I think there is to much of a technology gap now for the Amiga to come back rocking the world again.  Just gotta wonder how many years it will be before the last Amiga mobo finally dies.


Sadly, I agree. Say somebody with the rights to Amiga picked up the development of the Amiga where it left off, with the AGAs in production and the AAAs in early testing. Someone could probably finish off a functional AAA motherboard, and then have a system that would've been cutting edge 15 years ago. Someone probably could go from there, or even from the AGA design, incorporate the advancements made by add on hardware (accelerators, PCI busses, USB cards, etc) and make something cool which some retrogeeks would buy. Probably not enough to justify the expense. A company with tons of money and a large R&D team could probably try and rapidly evolve this into a modern system. But I dont think enough market share exists to make that reasonable. With Macs now running on PC hardware and with high end server systems being replaced by powerful Linux clusters, we're rapidly heading into a world of a single computer architecture centered around Intel and Intel clones.
 

Offline Tigger

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2007, 07:58:26 PM »
Quote

Phantom wrote:
According that I still have not a new Amiga motherboard to run AmigaOS 4.0, and after reading about the low and hi-end Amigas from ACK and Amiga Inc, I am in deeply thoughts.

Is this a fake announcement from Amiga Inc, just to make me and other people to wait for another long time when these machines will be for sale, or it's just a typical announcement from Amiga Inc (which it means nothing after all)?

I am very confused (and believe me I am still searching for an Amiga motherboard to run AmigaOS 4.0 since 2005 :P)


The boards themselves arent hoaxes, they are basically the test boards from Amigas new PPC manufacturer.  Will the boards actually show up with 4.0?   Thats a bigger question, there is alot of issues with the lawsuit that may make that very likely or very unlikely to occur.   If AI(D) wins the sourcecode, licenses etc, its very likely we will see new PPC boards, if Hyperion wins we'll likely only see SAM 440 and later a PS3 port.  (personally the PS3 port is the clever idea).
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Offline cpfuture

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2007, 08:58:28 PM »
Quote

 Say you have a good friend named Joe. You really like Joe, he's a reliable and interesting guy. Joe gets drunk and jumps off a 20 storey building to his death. Bob is walking down the street and sees the remains of Joe's body bleeding on the sidewalk. Bob whips out a hunting knife and skins Joe, removing his skin and leaving the bloody rotting carcass on the sidewalk. Bob then makes a suit out of Joe's skin and shows up at your house saying "Hi, I'm Joe. Let me come in and hang out with you." That's pretty much what Amiga Inc. is today.


@murple:  Thanks!! LMAO!!!

Offline jj

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2007, 09:14:03 PM »
@ Murple

One of the best analogies (splling?) I have heard, and fits exactly 1 million% to the Amiga situation.
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw

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Offline Nostalgiac

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2007, 09:52:12 PM »
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Rob wrote:
@murple

What makes a computer an Amioga


what a load of b*ll*cks in some of these answers... it should be easy... "Amiga was FUN..." and new stuff should be FUN...

Tom
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Offline murple

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2007, 09:55:56 PM »
Sucks, dont it? I wonder what it'd take to get some company to start making replacement parts for vintage machines. Seeing what they sell for on ebay, there's gotta be enough money in it for a small cottage industry. Itd have to do lots of things and not get too specialized to one machine... but itd kick ass if someone could make and sell stuff like new flicker fixes for Amigas, replacement chips for custom Amiga ICs, replacement Commodore 64 SID, VID, PLA and other chips (some guy in Canada is already making new PLA chips), and parts for like old Atari 2600s, etc. That way at least we could count on keeping our OLD Amigas working for many more years, and not have to worry about when parts just arent available anymore because the last SID or Denise chip just went up in smoke.

I think the hardest part would be getting the legal rights to sell them... stupid patent laws.
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2007, 10:10:35 PM »
Who cares about patent laws? What's good old China for?
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2007, 10:20:37 PM »
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4 - Custom chips that allow "True" Multitasking.

Like a GPU?  :-P
Most computers today have some sort of custom chipset. The problem is that these chips are not used properly by todays OSes.

But anyways.. Who in reality decides what makes an Amiga, is the owner. If they want the ack or whatever to be an Amiga, then it will, no matter how we feel about the issue.

Not that it will ever be released anyways..
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2007, 10:22:30 PM »
When you say it's not used properly by todays OSes you certainly mean Windows,aren't you:) ?
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2007, 10:24:33 PM »
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Blinx123 wrote:
When you say it's not used properly by todays OSes you certainly mean Windows,aren't you:) ?

Windows, linux, osx and so on..
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2007, 10:40:03 PM »
I wouldn't say, Linux and MacOSX can't handle fast multitasking. Especially MacOSX is a very fast OS,thats because of the Darwin Core,whichs some kind of Unix predecessor.
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Offline murple

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Re: Hi-End Amigas from Amiga Inc. True or fake?
« Reply #29 from previous page: July 27, 2007, 05:37:56 PM »
Darwin is a derivative of NetBSD or FreeBSD, I think. Forget which. There are a few free BSD flavors for PC hardware, and they're generally pretty sturdy, fast, secure and work great for servers. Kinda suck from a desktop user perspective, in my opinion, but lots of people like them. I dont know how the modified Mac version runs with all the extra crap they piled on it.

I can say Linux works damn fast at multitasking, though. Perhaps the poster who claimed otherwise was trying to run KDE and Firefox and a few Java apps while running Linux on a 486... but on a normal modern machine running typical software, it multitasks spectacularly.