MS DOS Emulation

[Hodgkinson]

Hi there again,
Well, I've managed to find PC-Task v3.1 on a cover disk that I have (Totally legit, btw)...But that brings me to another problem.

I dont suppose anyone out there has a electronic version of the PC-Task 3.1 documentation/manual, as supplied normally with the software?

Another point, I see from what documentation that I have that the turbo modes allocate 8MB+ of ram or somthing, so would a 8MB RAM expansion + normal system ram just scrape through here? Or isn't it really sufficient?

Thanks,
Hodgkinson.

[Xanxi]

I am currently trying MSDOS 6.22 with PCTask 4.4.
I have all four HD MSDOS install disk and my A1200 has a PC HD drive with a Catweasel.
I configured this drive as A: on the PCTask side but it keeps saying me "invalid boot disk" on startup, though the floppies are perfectly read on the WB side.
Anyone would have those disks in 720 Ko version so i can boot on my DF0:?

[spirantho]

OK, first thing...

I can't remember about 'turbo mode' but I know that dynamic mode on PC Task 4.0 or greater uses up 4x normal RAM, so that'd be fine as long as you only use 1MB for your PC. Try it and see...

Secondly, MS-DOS 6.00 and above come on HD floppies as standard. MS-DOS 5.00 comes on DD disks. You can put >=6.00 onto 720KB disks but it's hassle. What you should do is create a hardfile or partition and mount it from AmigaDOS. Then copy each file from the DOS disks into an installation directory, and run Setup from there. Of course that won't help you boot up in the first place - you'll need a method of booting up to get that far. You could try looking at FreeDOS and suchlike - that works on 8088 machines so should be ok on 3.5" disks to boot off, from where you can install 6.22 if you really need it.

Now... on to Alone in the Dark.

After spending all morning getting my 386 working (the dual port RAM was misbehaving - I've been using it as a guinea pig while trying to get my 486SLC-based A2386 working), I can say:

PC-Task interpretive runs Alone in the Dark quite impressively, but not really what I'd call fast. It may do at a pinch but you really ought to be looking at a hardware solution. A 66MHz '060 would help of course, mine is 'only' 50. It's playable when just moving around but when things start happening it's less good.
PC-Task dynamic is a lot slower than interpretive.
A2386SX (25MHz, 5MB RAM, Trident SVGA card) works acceptably but it's a bit stodgy. I wouldn't recommend it really.
GoldenGate 486SLC@25 (16MB 80nS RAM, Thunderbolt ISA CL-based 1MB SVGA, 8-bit Soundblaster II) works perfectly. Much more playable even with the soundblaster.

Overall, I was quite impressed by PC-Task, and the 2386 wasn't much faster that it... but the GG wins hands down. It's surprising how much of a difference the different chip makes!

So, my recommendation: nothing less than a GG486 or a 486-based 2386 (probably - can't get mine to work!). Of course if you stick an IBM Blue Lightning SLC75 onto that 2386....

And no, they're not for sale.


[Zac67]

The fastest bridge boards only feature a 486slc - a 386SX style CPU with 486 command set. Very slow imho.

Anyone who wants one is welcome to an old Pentium 200 that we don't use anymore. Runs circles around any existing '060 setup, let alone an emulated x86 on 68k.

I've had a 486DX100 single board PC lying around for a couple of years for putting into my A3000 - never really saw the point however and still fail to see it, when something you pick up for $5 at a yard sale is several times faster...

[bloodline]

@spirantho

Have you tried AROS on your emulated/bridged x86 systems?

[spirantho]

The fastest is an upgraded A2386SX- the fastest base model is the GoldenGate 486SLC2 which runs at 50MHz, but of course it's dead rare.

@bloodline
er.. well, yeah, on a K6 machine, but I'm not at all sure why you refer to it. Do you want me to try running AROS on the Goldengate? It's an interesting (and rather daft!) idea...!

[Hodgkinson]

68k Amiga running PC Emulator-Running Amiga Emulator-Running PC Emulator-Running Amiga Emulator-Running PC Emulator...
Why's my system slooooooow? :-?

lololol :idea:

Sorry, it had to be said.
Hodgkinson.

[bloodline]

spirantho wrote:
Do you want me to try running AROS on the Goldengate?

Yup

 It's an interesting (and rather daft!) idea...!

Yup! :-D

[Karlos]

Daft ideas rule. If it weren't for daft ideas, I wouldn't have the ability to catch C++ exceptions that are effectively thrown straight out of a 680x0 operation and many other stranger things besides...

[bloodline]

I decided to try it myself... Booting the AROS floppy disk in PCTask4... so far so good... though somewhat slow :-)

-Edit- Booting using the VGA, Slow ATA settings... something seems to go wrong when jumping out of supervisor mode though :-/

-Edit2- The problem seems to be with PCTasks lack(?) of FPU emualtion...

-Edit3- PCTask doesn't recognise the 040 FPU... :-(

[Xanxi]

I have managed to run PCTask 4.4 with MSDOS 5.0.
I can't get past the intro screen of Alone in the Dark for now, but Wolfenstein 3D works well on my 060@66Mhz.

However, i can't get the games to run on Picasso screen (i have an Ateo Pixel64 RTG board on this computer) though i configure the screen mode. The black screen of DOS runs on RTG but the game itself goes PAL through my scandoubler.

Anyone running more games on it?


PS: by the way, just want to say that this thread is quite fun and thanks to it i have finally forced myself to use PCTask. I was usually to lazy to do that on my own. I hope there will be a straitforward thread called "Mac emulation" soon :-)

[zipper]

Tried some, demos mostly; Abuse, Jazz jack-rabbit, Doom, even Tomb Raider demo (1-2 fps...) on PicassoIV RTG, no problems - perhaps a screen promoter could solve yours. I had ModePro, but can't remember if I needed it with PC-Task.

[Rabbi]

Hodgkinson wrote:
Hi there,
Im wondering (If it is possible) what would be the best emulator program to emulate MS-DOS on a A1200 with a basic 68020 and 4MB total RAM? Am I asking too much of the A1200 here?

I'd try to legally obtain PC-Task version 4.x & if you need, the upgrades to 4.4 are free & out there on Aminet as PC-TaskPatch4x.lha

As far as someone having it in stock, someone down the line did pay the author/distributor.  They don't get them for free, either.

Version 4.2 is where it begins with FPU emulation, so if your Amiga has an FPU, then PC-Task emulation use it.  Since you're only using a stock A1200, FPU emulation is not applicable.

One requirement for some of the software that I have is that the MS-DOS programs must be able (In some cases) to access the serial/parallel ports for interfacing to other devices, as some of the software that I have is control programs for other electronic devices.

Any advice appreciated,
Hodgkinson.

I know that the parallel port to a printer works fine, but don't expect the serial port to be of any use, such as for a modem & such.  Maybe PCX might be better in this regard, although I've never used it.

I had a HD partition for PC-Task 4.4, but when I installed my Subway USB card together one weekend with the Elbox FastATA Mk-III controller & installed FAT95, PC-Task 4.4 could no longer find it to boot. :-(  I never figured that one out, so I'm going to have to re-install everything, including Windows95 version B (for USB).

I've got the GoldenGate 486slc/50MHz on one of my A2000s with the optional Monitor Master monitor switcher connected to it.  I've also got another GoldenGate 486slc @ 25MHz that I'm considering selling.  Both have the optional Floppy Disk Controller chip installed in them.  I've got an extra FDC chip for the GG that I am selling for US$25.

My advice for a GUI on top of MS-DOS is The Breadbox Ensemble.  You need at least a 386 for this.  Imagine, an Internet access suite through a GUI on a 386, neat, huh?  BTW, Breadbox Ensemble does not work on PC-Task, as it bangs the metal, it needs a real PC.

BTW, if you've got an A1020 5.25" floppy as I do, I've also got an original Microsoft MS-DOS 6.2 upgrade in low-density 360k 5.25" format.  It spans 12 floppies + the Supplemental Kit (3 + 2 = another 5 more).  I filled out the coupon in the MS-DOS manual that came with the s/w for the lower density disks from M$ & sent it to them.

[Hodgkinson]

Thanks for the information!

Since I have just bought a 68882, found that I have a licenced version of PCx in a pile of floppies, and that you suggested that PCx might be better with the port access, does anyone know where I can get the PCx AmigaGuide documentation from, as mentioned on the Floppy disk readme?
Did PCx ever go above V1.1 (01/12/97) and fix PCxAFS? - If so does anyone know where I can get updates from?

Thanks,
Hodgkinson.

[Hodgkinson]

bump

[Castellen]

I've copied the docs for PCx ver 1.1 here if anyone needs them.

PCx serial port emulation seems to work better than PC-Task, I use PCx to run a number of DOS based 2-way radio programming applications, works fine.
A majority of the time I use PC-Task for running a DOS based Motorola 68HC11 embedded C compiler because the Amiga version isn't too flash.
PC-Task has two commands called "copytoa" and "copytoi" which is used to copy files from the emulated PC to the amiga, or from the amiga to the PC.  These are incredibly useful for transfering single files.
I created a DOS script file which copies in the C source code from the Amiga, compiles & assembles them, informs of any compilation errors and copies the target executable back to the Amiga.

Runs faster than on DOSbox on the 3.5GHz windows 2000 box at work.  DOSbox is good as you can adjust the number of emulation cycles done at a time, but it still emulates slower than PC-Task 4.4 on this 060.  With DOSbox emulation running at a usable speed, the windows mouse pointer is very jerky and the rest of the computer nearly grinds to a halt.  Go figure.

It's also worth noting that both PCx and PC-Task can use the same PC hardfile, so depending on what you're doing, you can use either emulator, but only have one hardfile.
Hardfile need to be located in PCx:HardFiles in this case (you need to make an assign "PCx:").

PCx has a good feature of generating a mountfile for the PC hardfile.  This means you can mount it on the Amiga and read/write to it.  I don't think you can have it mounted while the emulator is using the hardfile, for obvious reasons.