Future AmigaOS GUI

[teo]

click to enlarge


Although the pic is far from detailed (rather flawed actually), it gives the idea of the functionality that could possibly be gained by using window tabs. In reality there would be more tabs for things such as network settings etc etc.

Obvious faults with the pic are the missing buttons in the recessed window group such as icons for revert, default, load prefs and others. The list box would be populated by different display cards or similar and the resolution and depth would not be applicable (as they are sleected outside the display)

re: the actual screen prefs section. i have changed it a bit to illustrate that at least the screenmode prefs could be updated with dramatically better usability and more logical layout, im sure my design can also be improved to a large degree too. incase your wondering, ive removed the "Test" button with the assumption that the "Save" and "Use" button would detect a screen mode cange at run time and prompt to run a test at that point (windows style) for the single reason that it help clean it up a bit (ie, i could find anywhere to shove it ;-)

ps @mikeymike, hows this, the image is in a.orgs new mock up image section you have provided, the generated thumb is not too different (in size) from the avatars on the site. Catch is we would have to wait for the imgs to be approved before we could link to them in forums such as i have done here.

[PhatBoiCollier]

Just wondering, is this "tabs" approach preferable over the MUI-style list-down-the-left?

Comments everyone?

[teo]

@PhatBoiCollier

i would say that it would depend on the implementation target and misc different factors. Eg a list box would be far more practical for showing a list of 20 items then tabs, in which case some tab scrolling system would have to be implemented (ewwww). Im of the opinion however that if you have more then eight items then your entire prefs system should be revised as its probably too complex for the average user, esp newbies. If your not targeting newbies however, go for it!

I do think that tabs better identify the enclosed as related directly to the tabs, compared to a left side list box. List boxes are normally used to simply select an item, not for changing the content of a window to related material.

btw, apparently eight "items" is the max number of items the average human can cope with without having to overly concentrate (sorry, no source on that info). As such im the sort of person that would be dedicated to using lateral thinking to invent a system that would better implement the problem area, and not force the user to have to put up with a second rate implementation. I do accept its not always applicable thou.

[PhatBoiCollier]

Hmm, fair comment.  I am just wondering about the practicality of a "pages" system (widget) that switches between tabs and a list, once the number of pages exceeds 8.

If the UI uses proper layout controls, it should be able to handle it.  Or do you think thats taking too much away from the developer (i.e. forcing the issue too much).  I guess one of the params could be type (i.e. Tab, List or Auto).

Just throwing ideas around......

[Step]

@teotwin

The tab idea is a good one, however i must say that i am not that fond of the multi gadget, there is too much different control options without visual feedback, its easy to forget if function x was a right click or a double click, or whatever combo it might be.

Btw, your windows 'container' floats into the contents of the window, is the idea behind that to remove elements that might not be necessary ?
My tought is that it is adding rather than removing clutter.
The controlling element of the width/height is on the right side but for the refresh/depth its on the left side, it might just be me but i would like to see them consistently on one side.

[cycloid]

that latest prefs shot is getting there. though there's no test button at all now! in the previous lighter-grey example the test button should have been at the bottom among the save/use/cancel buttons. and the screen mode info text should NOT have been in white boxes as that makes them look like editable text boxes.

as for borders and buttons i LIKE chunky borders all the way around my apps. using visualprefs my "current" program has a blue border and the "other" ones have a yellow border all the way round. I find this much more pleasing on the eye than the windows method of just changing the titlebar color.

i dont mind either way about menus at the top of the screen or contained within programs. how about it becomes a user option with the windows menu-in-programs defaulted to help newbies migrate :-)

and i LOVE LOVE LOVE the "amiga browser"  mockup. i couldnt compute without windows explorer! though there is a LOT to be said about how nice the multitasking listers in Dopus magellan behave! so if the tree menu could be blinged on and off then that would be good, what with it popping out the side.

ooh! idea! opus style listers all over the workbench doing stuff and a treeview dock that is seperate and jumps to the location of the current lister. unless you lock it for drag copying.... how about you can drag the treeview around and stick it to other listers lol! then we get best of dopus Magellan listers and best of explorer all in one!

now all we need is for all file type icons to have mini icons built in for the listview modes

[Quixote]

olegil offered:

...I again suggest contacting Hyperion about making a theme. At worst they say "sorry, you missed the deadline", but from what I hear I think this is in fact what's being worked on as a last-minute thing (well, you can't introduce a severe crash by frelling up the pixels in a gadget, can you? So it makes sense doing this while everyone is doing last-minute beta testing). At best they say: Ok, contact this-or-that person and he'll send you the template he's using for the themes.

Gee, come on. I think Hyperion would agree to this if asked _properly_. Stop talking to Hyperion through forums, send them an email like everyone else...

;-) Reading between the lines, it seems as if someone is trying his best to hint around an NDA.  In Simoami's shoes, I'd be all over this suggestion.

[KingTutt]

teotwin wrote:
click to enlarge


Although the pic is far from detailed....

teowin, I think that all these themes and screens are really well presented. Modern, simple and still very amiga-ish.

I am particularly enamoured with the red miggy mouse pointer. I think that without the trademark red amiga pointer, we really lose some of that Amiga's character from the desktop.

Here's to sticking with all amiga trademark traits for OS4, especially our favourite little red mouse pointer which we have all grown very fond of since 1985!

[NewRevolution]

@teotwin

Very nice.
I like the idea of tabs (input, interface etc)
The scrollboc for display mode is alright.

1) It's still too gray. Maybe make the buttons a bit brighter?

1.1) Try to avoid Gray text og gray background. Colorblind and visual imparied ppl will have problems.

2) The arrows for Refresh rate and Depth are pointing right. Are these dropdown? How about having a arrow pointing down?

3) What is the difference betwen 'USE' and 'SAVE' button?

4) Can user select e.g. 1024x300? Why are there selection for screen "size" when this is choosen in Display mode?
A solution could be the way it is in windows. A dragbar that prevent users from setting invalid screen sizes.

5) The window is very compact - will this be large enough for the other folders(sound, input etc)?

6) Is is possible to have a plain background? Not a stripy bg? Reading text on a "noisy" background is more tireing than with plain bg.

[yssing]

@NewRevolution

This is my opinions and interpretations of that layout, which I really like.
1) Grey, I like that, far better than WinXP default blue/green theme.
2)I would have to agree with you on that one.
3)USE, enables you to test a screen mode without saving, so if it goes FUBAR, just reboot, and everything is back to normal.
4)Why not, but personally I don't se the point.
5 and 6. well :-)

[teo]

@PhatBoiCollier
Thats a good idea! if intuition new if the window tabs were going to be too wide for the window then it would convert them to a left hand list box on the fly (perhaps we could even design a new look of list box for this purpose to better illustrate the connection to the content) This would also be cool for when you resize a window the change could be made on the fly to best suit the windows actual available area?

@Step
There have been mixed opinions on the multi gadget, which to me normally means its a no go. I guess it could certainly be confusing to newbies, I might have a go at trying to set it up and see how it works in practice to see if it is as usable as i think. Even if its not, i still think that having window gadgets configurable would be of benefit, even if its not going to be used as i suggested it would at least mean you can set the layout as you see fit?

your windows 'container' floats into the contents of the window

Sorry, im not sure exactly which element you mean there, do you mean the window tabs not having a border onto the windows content, and as such that you think it would visibly create confusion?

@KingTutt
I agree, if theres one thing that we should be aiming for its a familiar gui recognisable as amiga. To be honest im not sure if mine does it successfully. Ive tried to keep my greys a little darker like the old os, you will notice that win and mac seem to have very light backgrounds by default, I tried it but it lost the amiga look i thought.

@all
Ive had another idea, not exactly to do with the gui but related. The OS should have a catalouge of common icon images and glyphs (gadgets) that could be accessed by all apps. I would STRONGLY recommend that the images are in SVG format (is there an SVG datatype for ami yet?) The idea is that every app would not have to worry about distributing common icons as they would already exist and be retrievable from the OS and when updated, all apps would benefit from the new styles. there i go thinkin' out loud again...

Some of the icons im thinking are for: ok, cancel, save, revert, refresh, delete, insert, update, change, help, load, preferences etc etc. I would expect the list to push past 100 glyphs, it may sound large but considering all the space apps would save over many many installs...

[teo]

@NewRevolution
1 & 1.1) yup, perhaps ill look into something a little more bold (colour wise), still needs to be amiga like of course...
2) agree
3) use doesnt save, eg on the old amiga i would temporary change it to play a game on the tv. I doubt it would be applicable for screen resolutions in the future, but one thing i forgot to mention about the screen shot was that the status bar is *NOT* affected by the window tabs, eg the save save, use, cancel button would be applicable to all pref settings, so you could in theory change the network setting to a specific IP address while you are out and about or on site, and not save it, and then revert to saved later (or simply reboot) to get rid of the temporary settings. So the use button would have a far greater impact on prefs then just screen modes alone.
4) the list box above would in reality not show the resolution as well (i just didnt remove it when i copied it from simoami) it would instead be showing a general device list (or similar) so the resolution would be outside of it. And if you want to make a screen bigger then the visible reolution you would need to enter it below, there would have to be some error checking for figures obvisouly. The thing that it is missing, is to be able to select from a default set of resolutions, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 etc etc
5) I would have to be larger for the other settings. The final layout would have to be created in respect to the other settings as well, and them formatted to suit the final width and height. An alternative is that each window tab could specify a different width and height that the window would be resized to when clicked. mac osx does this already but to be honest its mildly irritating to me. If i want a window to resize then ill prefer to do it myself, so I would lean towards setting a specific (generous) size for the prefs window, and layout the different sections to best use the available space.
6) ill do a quick mock up this weekend if i get the time.

[Ohno]

is there an SVG datatype for ami yet?

I don't think so. It is a very complex format to render completely. The Mozilla team has been working for years on a SVG renderer for Mozilla and it's still not in the Mozilla builds by default because it still isn't completed.

I'm currently working on a vector graphics drawing library for Amiga-Anywhere, but it will be nowhere near as complete as SVG and the vector graphics will most probably be in a binary format (XML is a bit big, for PDA's I prefer small filesizes for the image data

Regards,

Onno

[Step]

@teotwin

I made a quick alteration of your image to show you what i mean, the refresh/depth drop downs arrows are moved to the right side and are pointing down. Added a thin line and some partial blue to the window, i hope you see what i mean by that, its a very shaky alteration.

I like it when the active window is in blue...

Quickie picture

[Cymric]

teotwin wrote:
4. My proudest idea is also the visually smallest one. The super gadget replaces all of the resize, maximise, minimise, move to front/back buttons on windows. The idea is that the different click you can do on it will perform all of the same functions [snip] six in one, All from one icon!

Unfortunately, this is also the worst idea of the lot, in my humble opinion. The idea of using the keyboard in conjunction with the mouse, or requiring a double click with either mouse button in order to use system gadgets is far too cumbersome. A GUI should not require thought: it should be intuively obvious. Overloading a single gadget with six functions is the exact opposite. I much prefer two or three standard gadgets there (close, minimize, maximize), and have all elements of the window structure respond with a pop-up menu by right-clicking on it. (Useful when for example the window is largely moved out of the screen.) It doesn't look snazzy or progressive---but it should be ease-of-use first, and artistic design second. Not the other way around.

The rest of the ideas and pictures are certainly nice. Personally, I prefer my windows bare and stark as they are just acting as delimiters of their contents. But I'm sure other people have different opinions. What I haven't seen mentioned so far (but it's a large thread, could have missed it) is the fact that all mice nowadays have three buttons, and a scroll wheel. Many keyboards feature lots of extra keys. Have you given any thought how to incorporate those? Or how to make the GUI accessible with just a keyboard? (Think RSI here.)

[olegil]

Not really hinting, and no NDA here... Just applied a bit of sensible logic to Hyperions answer to some stuff written about the "default" look shown last weekend on OS4 on tour.

I seem to recall a mention to the effect that "OS4 works, but some last minute things need to be fixed, like more themes and a better default look"

But IANAL (I Am Not A Lexicon :-P), so I might recall wrong :-)