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Author Topic: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)  (Read 7995 times)

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Offline KThunder

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2006, 04:49:07 PM »
noobs noobies... heh! heh heh heh hahaha!!
sorry just sounds umm funny

ubantu is good id say slackware is better though. i used to use redhat a real lot.


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and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2006, 06:10:00 PM »
Quote
redrumloa wrote:
Not a total newbie, but not l33t ;-)

Clearly not - it's spelled 1337  :-P  :lol:

Another vote for Ubuntu here. I run it on my PegII and in Parallels on my MacBook. It's great! Not sure whether you can do a web install though. As for documentation, well it's got man hasn't it :-)

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Piru

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2006, 06:19:35 PM »
I guess he means network install.
 

Offline Failure

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2006, 06:55:22 PM »
I suggest Amiga UNIX!

Kidding.  Another vote for Ubuntu here.  I typically run Debian on everything, and I like it a lot, but it can be frustrating for new users.

I recently set up a media PC with Ubuntu.  It boots off the network into a Gnome desktop...completely silent!  Reason I mention it was your TV watching, since that is one of the things I use it for (along with video files).  Would MythTV be what you were referring to?  It says it has closed caption support.  There are precompiled packages for it in Ubuntu in the multiverse/universe repository (forget which).  I've got the backend component running on the mutant Debian fileserver, only the frontend in the living room.  I use it to watch over-the-air HD broadcasts :-D  I took a pic from when I was testing it on the fileserver here.  It is capable of running windowed, but I couldn't tell you how as I always want it full screen...it's "full screen" in the pic, it's just two displays.

If you're after something requiring less effort to setup than MythTV maybe you would like tvtime.
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Offline tormedhammaren

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2006, 07:27:36 PM »
Quote

I think the only noob friendly way is Slackware (+ a big Linux book).
Because it forces you to learn the setup of Linux.
If things go wrong at least you can find out yourself. Else you have to be lucky to find a topic on the net wich is about your problem. And you'll probably spend too much time on repairing your problem and you'll learn not much about it.


Distros sucks!

No, Linux from Scratch is really the most newbie friendly way:
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

Why use someone else init scripts when you can craft your own?

Just reserve one week for the installation and compillation and you have a shiny, responsive and minimal Linux installation.

tormedhammaren/toddi ||==
 

Offline red_orion

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2006, 12:00:36 AM »
Slackware is my first choice. Then there is Vector Linux, or Zenwalk which are both more desktop oriented than plain Slack.
 

Offline d0pefish

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2006, 02:28:52 AM »
I am using Gentoo Linux.

It's got a pretty good learning curve. I used to use Slackware, then later I tried Gentoo and it taught me a lot about how Linux works.

Almost everything is compiled from source code making it very stable and fast, and you get to decide exactly what gets put onto your system; you can fine-tune it very easily. I have a very nice setup of Gentoo running at the moment; I'm using it for 3D games, higher-end audio work, and general productivity.

Whenever I've ran into trouble, the wiki, bugzilla or the forum has always held the answer. I'm very pleased with it.

If you have some time, give it a shot! :)
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2006, 03:32:44 AM »
Quote
Almost everything is compiled from source code making it very stable and fast, and you get to decide exactly what gets put onto your system; you can fine-tune it very easily. I have a very nice setup of Gentoo running at the moment; I'm using it for 3D games, higher-end audio work, and general productivity.

And it takes literally days before the whole systems is compiled, which really does not make it a good desktop distro for most people.
 

Offline Plaz

Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2006, 04:18:39 AM »
@redrumloa

Quote
Since I am getting some fantastic feedback here, what about windowable TV software with WORKING closed caption support and recording capability?


I haven't tried it myself so I don't know all the features, but a friend speaks well of MythTV for linux. Might be worth a look see.


Plaz
 

Offline d0pefish

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2006, 08:46:30 PM »
Days?

I only have an average PC, Athlon XP 2600+. Base install took a few hours including downloading, left GNOME and all its dependencies compiling overnight, and I had a fully working desktop in the morning. Not that painful, really.

The old way was to compile literally everything to bootstrap it. That could take days, but it's not the case any more. Support for that has been dropped (though it's still possible for the die-hards) and you install a precompiled base to get going.

I still think Gentoo is a good choice for someone wanting to learn more, instead of being thrown to a desktop with the all-important console being hidden away. Still, that's the beauty of Linux, you get to choose your poison.

I haven't tried Linux from Scratch but I'm interested; maybe on a spare box when I get a few days free I'll give it a try! :)
 

Offline Piru

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2006, 08:55:43 PM »
@d0pefish
Quote
Almost everything is compiled from source code making it very stable

How does building from source make it stable?

Quote
and fast

How much faster? And is it really worth the trouble to compile yourself to get few percent faster binaries?

Quote
and you get to decide exactly what gets put onto your system; you can fine-tune it very easily.

Which is equally possible with any other good distribution. You don't need to compile your own packages for that. But if you insist, you can build the packages yourself on other good distros aswell.

I'm not saying Gentoo is a bad distribution, but I don't see it being somehow better than the others, at least not using your criteria. And it certainly isn't friendly for someone who wants to get something up and running fast (agreed, Debian probably isn't that either ;-)).
 

Offline InTheSand

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2006, 09:05:33 PM »
Hmmm... Gentoo sounds interesting - what I assume is the "base" install came on a recent magazine cover DVD so I might give it a go on a spare (or virtual) machine...

I do like Ubuntu, though, for its ease of use and that everything just works with the minimum of fuss. But I'm not afraid of the command line!

I remember the days of installing Slackware from floppies on a 486SX laptop, watching X and fvwm struggle to launch (in monochrome!) with 4Mb RAM and 16Mb of swap!!!, and recompiling just the kernel, which took forever...

Have you (d0pefish) had any other Linux distros on your Athlon-based machine to compare the speed vs Gentoo?

My Linux machine runs the usual basics of Apache, MySQL, PHP and Samba, plus the VMWare server software, as well as being used for general purpose web browsing (Firefox), email (Thunderbird) and office stuff (OpenOffice)...

Not sure if I'd benefit from going to Gentoo - about the most CPU-intensive stuff I run (aside from VMWare when it's busy) are the X screensavers!!!

 - Ali
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2006, 09:14:04 PM »
Quote

Piru wrote:
I'm not saying Gentoo is a bad distribution, but I don't see it being somehow better than the others, at least not using your criteria. And it certainly isn't friendly for someone who wants to get something up and running fast (agreed, Debian probably isn't that either ;-)).
You should have read what he was replying to.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline d0pefish

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2006, 01:25:13 AM »
Quote
How does building from source make it stable?


Right, it doesn't. I dunno why I typed that really. I was in a rush. But now I'm not, so I'll do Gentoo a bit of better justice. :)

What really makes it stable is the way you can choose which sources get downloaded and compiled. By default, it's the packages marked as stable by all the Gentoo devs who work on testing and fixing all the packages in Gentoo's tree. Granted, these packages aren't always the newest, which is likely the case for a binary distro anyway.

However, the vast majority of package sets also have newer sources marked as unstable, either because it has a few bugs that need fixing, or hasn't been fully tested and verified for stability yet. You can freely unmask these unstable packages and use them. But if you keep the stable package set, you end up with a bug-free system nearly all of the time.

The package tree (called Portage) is kept in sync via rsync; it's updated every day, all the time, and Gentoo provides you with some nice commands to sync and update your system, or install/uninstall whichever packages. You can also check for packages that are redundant (dependancies that are no longer needed) and also fix broken reverse dependencies. That way you system doesn't get b0rked if you like to test lots of new software. :) It is remarkably easy to switch between bleeding-edge and stable, for any number of packages. You just keep a list of the ones you want to use in their unstable forms.

You can also add one or more of the many "overlays" which people make. This so you can add an unsupported 3rd party set of packages over the top of the main tree. This way, for eg. you can fetch and build a brand new package from SVN, keep the package in sync with SVN, or cleanly remove it.

It also has a config file protection system, so if an updated package comes with a new syntax in its config file, your old one won't get zapped. It will alert you, and you can choose which config file to keep, or do an interactive merge based on the diffs.

Finally, the best part. USE flags.
With Gentoo, you can easily keep the number of dependencies that are pulled in by certain apps to a minimum. Since everything gets compiled from sources, you get to choose what gets compiled in.

Say for e.g. you wanted to install a music player. By default, it might be compiled with aRTs, ESD, OSS and so on. As a result, it would depend on those other apps, and they'd get pulled in and compiled. aRTs might in turn depend on all sorts of KDE libraries, so if you wanted to keep a GNOME-only system, you might get half of KDE pulled in just because you installed a music player.

In Gentoo you can set so called USE flags. Every package is marked with these flags which are used globally.
E.g, I want to keep a totally KDE-free system. I don't want any KDE or QT libraries installed:

-kde -qt -arts - any apps which make use of KDE, QT or aRTs are either compiled without support for them (saving time/space/packages being pulled in) or not compiled at all (maybe because they really need them to run).

+alsa -oss +mp3 - any audio-related apps I compile that make use of these flags will be ALSA enabled, won't be compiled with old-style OSS driver support, and they will compile in support for playing MP3s.

In this way, you save on the amount of bloat/useless packages being installed, and you keep your apps lean and mean.

The main killer app of Gentoo just has to be its package system. I am not saying Gentoo is better than any other distro, because frankly, I've only ever used Slackware and Mandrake before Gentoo. But it's just my distro of choice; all I can say is try it. :)

Have a look at http://gentoo-portage.com, which is a website-ified version of the package tree; it might give you an idea of how it works.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2006, 03:07:38 AM »
Quote
I still think Gentoo is a good choice for someone wanting to learn more, instead of being thrown to a desktop with the all-important console being hidden away. Still, that's the beauty of Linux, you get to choose your poison.

I do not know a single distro where the console is hidden away. I compile stuff with my ubuntu box as well. The difference is that i only compile when needed as a last option.

And i have actually heard alot of horror stories about gentoo systems falling to pieces during a software upgrade..  A newbie going through all that hassle, will most likely turn away from linux and give up.
 

Offline d0pefish

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Re: The *nix cat fight thread. No, I really just want opinions ;-)
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 06, 2006, 08:18:40 PM »
Quote
I do not know a single distro where the console is hidden away. I compile stuff with my ubuntu box as well. The difference is that i only compile when needed as a last option.


...I didn't entirely mean that literally. :roll: I'm trying to say that some distributions I've seen GUIfy everything and place emphasis on the nice easy to use desktop; no need for anyone to touch the console.

You can eat all the horror stories you like, I'm not pushing Gentoo on anyone, all I am saying is that I have had great experiences with it, and I'd recommend that you guys give it a whirl sometime, no need to bite my head off.

It's not Like I'm trying to sell you Windows or something...