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Author Topic: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?  (Read 20027 times)

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Offline tormedhammaren

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #74 from previous page: November 02, 2006, 05:20:53 AM »
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but the reason is seems so resposive, is because the applications are also of a small footprint.

Responsiveness in AmigaOS is also linked to the fact that it's a micro kernel architecture with a message-passing system. Passing messages on the AmigaOS is just passing pointers (very fast). This is why it's hard (or impossible) to implement full memory protection on the Amiga.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2006, 07:26:48 AM »
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stopthegop wrote:
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Hmmm... maybe a hardware issue? I shut down errant processes all the time, and aside from the occasional momentary hang, it's fine. Come to think of it, I don't think I've had to reboot windows due to a (software) crash in years.


Congratulations.  You own the only reliable Wintel box on Planet Earth.  I'm not talking about just one box that I own, I'm talking about literally thousands of different servers and workstations that I've worked on.  I do Field support work (15+ yrs) for a very well know storage systems company -- robotic tape libraries, disk arrays, etc..  

I do Win2K/XP system and application programming in C/C++/ATL/MFC/COM/Win32. My Wintel system is stable enough for rouge (user land) application crashes.

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In my experience, when customers report hardware problems (tape drives not being recognized, LUN mapping problems, unable to initialize robotics, unknown path to host, storage unit unavailable, etc, etc, etc...).  I could go on for days..  

These are not normal desktop applications. Are they multitasking issues?

Note that, Windows NT runs into issues if the application crosses user/kernel space divide.

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But the problem is almost always software, in spite of what Microsoft or anyone else says.

Depends on third party software's architecture.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2006, 07:36:18 AM »
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mr_a500 wrote:
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To anyone who thinks Windows is unstable I'll pose these questions: how often have you gone to an ATM to draw out money? So many times you can't give a number? Same for most of us. Now, when was the last time you walked up to one and found it had crashed?

I've seen one crashed ATM in the past 5 years.

Guess what OS most of them are running? It begins with 'W' and ends with 's'...


This is getting a bit off topic, but I MUST reply to this.

I have seen ATMs crashed about 12 times in the past 3 years. You know why? It is specifically BECAUSE they switched to Windows. I know this because the company I work for did consulting work for all the major banks in Canada and they ALL had problems after switching. In the entire 16 years before they switched to Windows I had never once seen a single crashed ATM.

(back to the regularly scheduled topic...)

What type of crash e.g. BSOD or terminate application dialog box?
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Offline Panthro

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2006, 09:03:24 AM »
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AmigaOS.. I am no expert on the multitasking in windows and linux, but it does seem to give a smoother experience when multitasking under amigaos.




hey is there any other way that counts??

the user is what computers are all about. anything
else is just geeks fogging up thier glasses over a
system that is meaninless to real life! :lol:
-Panthro
 

Offline Piru

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2006, 09:04:54 AM »
@FrankBrana
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Which will be the MorphOS position if we include it on the poll?

MorphOS ABOX scheduler is similar to AOS one, however, it has plugin interface to allow finer control of rescheduling. By default it functions the same as AOS, that is simple round robin.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2006, 09:09:41 AM »
@tormedhammaren
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In my opinion the free unices (Linux and the BSDs) is the most stable OSes for personal users

I agree 100%, being debian user. Windows isn't as horrible as it used to be, however.
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2006, 09:42:20 AM »
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Piru wrote:
@Speelgoedmannetje
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Yet I haven't seen my Workbench (1.3) crashing.

It clearly means you must sell your Windows boxen and replace it with A500 running WB 1.3.

Or even better, replace it with C64 running GEOS. It has even less code that can have bugs.
You very well know what I 'm talking about (the KISS-approach)
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2006, 09:46:04 AM »
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Piru wrote:
@tormedhammaren
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In my opinion the free unices (Linux and the BSDs) is the most stable OSes for personal users

I agree 100%, being debian user.
Running in a CLI in Linux is simply perfect; nothing goes wrong whatsoever. However, kde is a complete disaster (haven't worked much yet with gnome or xfce).

Quote
Windows isn't as horrible as it used to be, however.
Indeed.
But when things go wrong things go really wrong.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline _yak_

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #82 on: November 02, 2006, 09:56:43 AM »
I don't know if it was mentioned before but another difference between AmigaOS and Windows is that in AOS things like windows handling (moving, resizing, also redrawing in most apps) and basic gadgets handling is done by Intuition in its input handlers. In Windows, this is done by the app. That's why you can't move windows of busy apps or change their main windows if any other is opened. This makes the AmigaOS multitasking to feel better.
 

Offline alewis

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2006, 09:59:03 AM »
Warning - potential long winded opinated post...

Interesting thread, with some nice POV's being expressed.

But, the original question needs a tweak. Instead of asking which OS is best at multitasking, perhaps it should be which OS is best for a given task requirement.

Why? Because we are comparing an OS that hasnt been developed - really - in, what, 15 years? (I dont really call WB3.5 and 3.9 major developments over 3.1, and the ROM hasn't changed at all), and a hardware platform that hasn't changed in terms of horsepower or capabillity in just as long.

On the other side, we have Windows, which can trace a heritage back to VMS, but is "only" 4 years old, and Linux that is, well, constantly developed and comes in a zillion flavours. And the hardware platform that can be 10 years old or 10 weeks...

And thats before we take into account the custom chipset that the Amiga has, which allows the OS to offload tasks from the CPU. Not only is the OS different, but the hardware is completely different. The PC OS expects the CPU to do everything, AmigaDOS doesn't. Ok, so the PC has GPUs... these didnt really come of age until, say the advent of the Nvidia G-Force Yes, I know there have been grpahics accelerators for the PC since the 80s, but these really relied on optimised CPU drivers. One could argue that is still the case, as a driver is still needed for the latest video card or physics processor, there is no native OS support in the kernal/HAL for graphics off-loading. Why- because the architecture "floats"; the PC I buy or build is different to yours, so the modular approach has to be taken. An Amiga is an Amiga is an Amiga. A PC isn't, well, not to the same degree.


Its like asking which car is "best"; this Datsun 380ZX from 2002, or this one from 1987. Put them in a straight line race, and the older car wins. But is that best? best at what? best fuel economy? Comfort? value for money (however the heck one measures that highly subjective phrase!), and so forth. Now add in BMW M3s from the 80's, 90's, and lastest series, and ask a BMW fanatic which is best...  Oh, and maybe Hamman M5/450 for interest (540 series with a 5.5l engine from an 8 series shovelled into it...)

See what I'm getting at? There is no single reference point to make a comparison.

Theoretical discussions about the elegance of a particular OS approach to multitasking fall flat when hardware is factored in. In turn, that isn't an absolute statement, but one which works pretty well in the real world.

AmigaDOS and OS2/3 is "better" than XP? it may or may not be, (lets say it is). But on what hardware platform? It can beat XP into a crooked hat on paper, but I'd rather be using XP on a dual Opteron with a few gigs od RAM than an A500 with 1mb and a single floppy... the time saved between the two systems booting is wiped out in the time spent using Final Writer to type a letter than Word. And I can play MP3 on the XP box at the same time... cant on the A500. Yes, I could have protracker or wahtever running, but I doubt I'll find my music in that format.

Ok, so I use an A4K with PPC/060. Final Writer runs a bit faster. ProText runs quicker, but a character based WP on a GUI system... nope, still give me Word.

Yes, I do believe that AmigaDOS does multitask "better" than XP, and have used the floppy format analogy often. I've also used, as a challenge to annoying peeps that boast they have the fastest&meanest rig that my computer can do a task quicker than theres, and I'll stake my rig on it; the task is to write and print a letter. I'm using a Commodore64 with Easyscript cartridge.... its "fast". But I wouldnt use it for a mail merge! (why? ever doen mail merge from a very slow floppy drive! Yes, I could add a REU and HD, but the expenditure outweighs the benfit of a few simple text only letters. Adding GEOS in, it gets s.l.o.w again)

The theory is fine. But like all theory, it cannot take into account that wonderful thing called the real world. You have to take into account the hardware, and what one actually wants to accomplish.

In a way, its linked to the "polls" one used to see in printed Amiga magazines, "what would you like to see in a new Amiga". Well, when you look at many of the answers, what you end up with is not an Amiga.

Examine what one wants to do, then decide what apps offer the fucntionality to achieve that, which decides the platform.

AmigaDOS is still best. even though I cant use multi-monitor display, have no simple IP stack, slick browser, decent email client, slick graphical UI... otoh, Pagestream 3 rocks! I'm not even looking at PS on the PC...

just my long winded tuppence.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #84 on: November 02, 2006, 10:03:06 AM »
@_yak_
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In AOS things like windows handling (moving, resizing, also redrawing in most apps) and basic gadgets handling is done by Intuition in its input handlers. ... This makes the AmigaOS multitasking to feel better.

Very true. But it also sucks if it is taken to extremes: Reaction does very complex rendering from within input.device task context at priority 20, blocking anything lower priority.
 

Offline Agafaster

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #85 on: November 02, 2006, 10:55:32 AM »
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Tomas wrote:
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ptek wrote:
So, the Amiga is better at multitasking than Linux ?

From how it feels to me, then yes. But i can only talk from a user perspective.


I can quantify that:

try multitasking in a graphical environment, in a low power (by modern standards) system:
AmigaOS: A1200 030 at 25MHz with 8MB ram OS3 (any of em!)
Linux: same setup, but one of the m68k builds, I tried BSD (couldnt get X working) and debian 2.something m68k build.

you will find that linux is dog slow even just running X! ok, thats cheating a smidge, cos I was trying to use X on AGA, but the point, I believe, is made.
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Offline Waccoon

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #86 on: November 02, 2006, 11:26:23 AM »
Are you are talking about things at the low-level or the high level?

High-level multitasking depends on the quality of the shell/GUI system.  A really, really good OS can be totally crippled by a bad GUI.  I feel that every time I try a new Linux distro and have to endure endless KDE garbage.  KDE was designed to look and feel a lot like Windows, and it shows.
 

Offline ptekTopic starter

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #87 on: November 02, 2006, 11:51:25 AM »
@Agafaster

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try multitasking in a graphical environment, in a low power (by modern standards) system:
AmigaOS: A1200 030 at 25MHz with 8MB ram OS3 (any of em!)
Linux: same setup, but one of the m68k builds, I tried BSD (couldnt get X working) and debian 2.something m68k build.

you will find that linux is dog slow even just running X! ok, thats cheating a smidge, cos I was trying to use X on AGA, but the point, I believe, is made.


I don't think the Linux slow performance in these case matters for the multitasking question ... The slow performance seems due to hardware limitation (linux makes use of virtual memory) and as we know the Amiga HW (HD access - maybe with a real SCSI HD would be better - , memory BUS among and others things) are really outdated, so even the multitasking as Linux is pre-emptive and not round robin, in the Amiga hardware the system crawls due to HD limitations (like trying using the AGA achitecture on a X based chunky display)

Onions have layers ...
 

Offline Agafaster

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #88 on: November 02, 2006, 11:53:58 AM »
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Is there a perfect multitasking machine on this planet :) ?


Mainframes do a pretty good job...

and they go all the way back to when they were little more than ZX Spectrums in terms of horsepower/RAM...

the philosophy of mainframes is still there, but now they have terabytes of RAM, and even more disk/tape space.

mind you, they also have multiple processor cores.
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Offline Agafaster

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Re: About multitasking, what's best : AmigaOS, Linux, or Winblows XP ?
« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2006, 12:22:54 PM »
ptek,
I take your point: Debian is fine on my A1! (800MHz G3 now, instead of 25MHz 68030/68882)
but then, I tend to use Sawfish, and steer well clear of KDE.
OS4 is good too, it seems to allow more time for non-os things than debian does. I will quantify:
Playing non-protected DVDs is smoother in DVPlayer on OS4 than on Xine/mplayer on debian.
(I only ever watch movies on debian if they are WMV, and even then, not all are supported there!)
but that could be any number of things, and not necesarily down to the actual scheduler.

-edit-
its also worth pointing out what they are:
AmigaOS (even version 4) is essentially a single-user single core multitasking system, and debian (indeed any linux) is a multiuser multicore multitasking system.


note: by single/multi core I mean capabilities, not requirements!
linux takes care of every eventuality - dealing with lots of users, lots of sessions, and (potentially) 1-to-lots of cores.
\\"New Bruce here will be teaching Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud.\\"
\\"Those are all cricketers, Bruce !\\"
A1XE G3/800MHz Radeon 7000 512MB
A1200 030/25MHz 8MB