Anyone drive a hybrid?

[Agafaster]

GadgetMaster wrote:
Maybe this THIS

Would suit you better then.  :-)

YYYuck! that is one Pig-ugly motor!

The Koleo looks better, but its nearly a bl00dy 4x4...

[Hyperspeed]

Dandy: That was the most wonderful post I have read on Amiga.org or anywhere.

:-)

Funnily, mel_zoom was concerned about a satellite-based energy platform when I commented about it on another thread...

:-D

Anyway, from glorious Deutschland: home of the blinkenlights(!) I have just bought a book on how to convert old Diesel engines to run on chip oil.

Herr Diesel was a genius and rumours prevail that he or someone inspired by him 100 years ago tried peanut oil succesfully in a Diesel engine.

The guy I bought the book from reccommends old Volkswagen and Mercedes vans before TDI came into being. They have whirlchambers ideal for the burning of chip oil.

People are doing this near me and have informed the government so they can pay excise duty. It works out at 40p/Litre instead of 98p/Litre for mineral diesel (40p = 70 Euro cents?)

There is also a Diesel SMART car coming with 75MPG (30Km/Litre) and still the old SMART cars do 50-60MPG.

Here's a good link: http://www.gogreenfuel.com/
This details how trucks can use a water-based system to extract hydrogen+oxygen to improve the combustion in their engines to increase fuel effiency and reduce monoxide.

by GadgetMaster:
Hmm.... if only I could afford a Tesla

Yeah, that thing was on Top Gear. James Bond (Roger Moore) drove one in Monte Carlo and it was silent and got off traffic lights almost instantaneously! The Mitsubishi though is not as impressive as the 6-Wheel electric Honda thing that hit 200MPH!

The advantages of electric cars are:

· Quiet - no noise pollution, no lack of concentration, greater awareness of hazards like children or trucks

· No immediate emissions - a power station's fuel effiency with flywheels is far greater than a single car.

· The lack of a ½-tonne engine block means you could survive a crash as a result of better breaking and less impact energy

· The advent of magnetic bearings could soon mean even better energy transfer - hey you could even brake by reversing (negative as opposed to neutral inertia?)

· Electric as seen in GadgetMaster's 'Tesla' link means no more brain power wasted on gears, clutch etc.

[falemagn]

Interesting thread. Don't have much to add, don't drive an hybrid car nor I own a normal car, for reasons ranging from not wanting to add even more pollution to this world to the costs involved in owning and driving a car here in Italy (it would cost me up to 4000 EUR per year, if not more).

But I'm keeping an eye on the development of the technology in this area, and I've got a link to share with you all: http://www.autobloggreen.com/.

Hope that's of interest. :-)

[PMC]

Electric cars or hybrids are brilliant in theory, but the environmental damage caused by a vehicle isn't just caused by emissions alone - we need to take into account the construction and recycling costs of such a car.

Although battery technology has come a very long way in a short space of time, their life is still finite and they're still costly to manufacture/recycle, not to mention the fact that they'll add weight to any vehicle which already has an internal combustion engine installed.

I believe that ambient temperature is also a huge factor in the efficiency of a battery also.  

However, the reduction in greenhouse emissions from a hybrid car is more of a moot point when you consider how many tonnes of carbon are pumped out by the fast growing air travel industry....

[Hyperspeed]

25% of the United States' emissions are domestic cars. Think about a few thousand people using airliners and maybe 150 million US car drivers all going out in the 'driving season'.

I think Arnie is taking a stronger stance on this in California. I think in big cities the SMART car is not only going to reduce stress on the driver (easy parking 2x SMART cars sideways in the footprint of a family car) but it will also reduce health problems and congestion.

There is also a car/bike thing being made in the UK where the passenger sits behind the driver like in a jet fighter. The trike is ridden like a motorcycle but has a hydraulic articulated section in the middle which means the rear 2x wheels stay in contact with the road and the front can corner like a bike. Can't remember the name of this thing but it looks way cool, looks something like this -->



And then there's the Hydrogen ENV motorbike showcased in London a year or two back. Costing £4,500 GBP and having a top speed of 80Km/h (49.7MPH) with a range of 160Km (99.4 Miles) this motorcycle is completely silent and non-polluting. A bit cooler than those rasping 50cc scooters you see 16yr olds teetering about on these days.



:-D

Oh, and look at these!

A trike for mel_zoom
A car for Karlos
A bike for GadgetMaster

:laughing:

[PMC]

I'm sorry but a lot of bollocks has been written about the level of pollution emitted by private cars.  

For example, in the UK emissions from commercial haulage and indeed rail transport are included in 'official' carbon emission statistics from private cars (source: Dept of Transport).  On a BBC web forum I challenged the then junior minister of transport to add substance to his statistics, citing the example I'll shortly give about air travel.

Make no mistake, the private motorist is the scapegoat for the sins of industry and the British government in particular aren't even bothering to mask their cynicism.  I've watched with interest for fifteen years as fuel taxation has been steadily hiked, with next to zero additional investment in public transport.  We're being bent over and royally stiffed folks, saving the Earth is being used as a cynical excuse for the actions of a cash strapped treasury.

I'm NOT saying I want to continue sticking two fingers up and driving my 2.5 litre V6 in defiance - far from it - but I need a viable alternative.  My local rail company has hiked fares by 7% in the past few weeks, with no improvement in services yet seen.  I'll switch to an electric car if necessary, provided congestion is eased with new roads and buyers incentive schemes.  Where are they?

So how much carbon does my 2.5 litre Alfa Romeo emit?  Put it this way, it'll take 120 years of motoring for me to emit as much CO2 as a 747 flying from London to Washington DC, which is a distance my car can cover in 3 months of average motoring - with four passengers on board.  

In short, I want to do my bit, but not as an unwilling cash cow for a greedy politician.

[Hyperspeed]

I'm a huge car fan and love all kinds of vehicles but after the Iraq war and watching Fahrenheit 9/11 my childhood posters came off the wall.

I won't feel embarassed to drive a SMART car any more. If Dubya can admit that "America is addicted to oil" then I sure as hell won't stand in the way of battery cars.

Too many places like out-of-town shopping centres are built with car access in mind, people are becoming psychologically maimed by the car culture.

A small vehicle, even a battery powered bike (or a Segway if you're mildly insane) is so much more liberating.

I think future cities will be 'park and ride' for the Subaru drivers and free congestion charges for electric cars and scooters.

Internal combustion has had it's day and I will continue to boycott Top Gear until Clarkson cuts the 'Fluffy Kittens' crap towards environmentalists.

EDIT:
Virigin Atlantic has talked of a new way to reduce aviation pollution by 21%. They will be towing their planes to the runway for takeoff as a tremendous amount of fuel is burnt simply taxying to the correct lanes.

Oh, and read once that Dave Haynie drives a hybrid. You cannot argue with 'Da Man'!

[Agafaster]

@PMC: is that 2.5l V6 a petrol engine ? :-o
makes me feel way less guilty about my 1.8l straight-four !

although I doubt you'd be able to actually drive your Alfa to Washington - although you could drive it back about halfway ! ;-)

The ones that really p!ss me off are the Warriors/Navaras/Dodge Rams of this world. they just look like they're intended to be driven by b#stards with no concern for others. alleged safety being the main selling point - safety for the occupants is the only one I can see.

[Agafaster]

@Hyperspeed:
Once they do electric vehicles that perform like the bugatti Veyrons or Ferrari 355s of this world, Top Gear will start to cover them. besides, they have a point about the Lexus Hybrid 4x4 - its performance is actually worse than the equivalent non-hybrid, which kinda makes a mockery of the London congestion charge policy.

you do have a point about their knee-jerk reaction to environmentalists though - although anythings possible: even David Attenborough a noted climate change sceptic of yore has been convinced. hope for Clarkson and the boys yet ?

also, the stunts they pull are worth their weight in gold - take the one last week where James May and Richard Hammond had a Robin Reliant transformed into a Space Shuttle lookalike - absolutely priceless!

[PMC]

Agafaster wrote:
@PMC: is that 2.5l V6 a petrol engine ? :-o
makes me feel way less guilty about my 1.8l straight-four !

although I doubt you'd be able to actually drive your Alfa to Washington - although you could drive it back about halfway ! ;-)

Yeah, it's a petrol... Roughly 2500 miles to the breakdown ;-)

However, I cycle to work 4 out of 5 days per week and use public transport wherever possible so I'd say I'm pretty eco-friendly all told.

I just hate the political hypocrisy, it's all very well for the general public to give up our cars so that HM Govt can crow all they like about "economic growth" (which relies on the expaning air travel industry), but I'll take my responsibilities seriously once I see Blair/Brown et al turning up for work in a Ford Focus instead of a Jaguar V8.  

That my friends, is politicians at their most cynical - Cameron's bike ride to work with his Lexus following with his briefcase is another example of why we need to force the issue right up the political agenda.  

[Hyperspeed]

by Agafaster:
Once they do electric vehicles that perform like the bugatti Veyrons or Ferrari 355s of this world, Top Gear will start to cover them.

I don't remember them doing an article on the Honda 6-wheel drive electric prototype that topped 200MPH - think that was on 5th Gear on Channel 5. 5th Gear was the one that showed the Tesla electric sports car too.

I used to enjoy Top Gear but it is essentialy a very 'lads mag' type of show. It's very similar in pyshcology to the British soldiers that strapped an Iraqi to a forklift truck and then posed thumbs-up - something that Secondary School kids and American FPS players indulge in.

There was a good nature program on the other day and it showed BBC's Kate Humble testing a methanol car. It was good to see a nature lover in the driver's seat as opposed to a verbal-engineer.

Anyone remember 'Johnny Lightning Hover Conversions' from Back To The Future? Turning old Cadillacs into fying machines... bring on OEM fuel cells we can just plug into existing cars, replacing the combustion engine.

The biggest finger of shame should be pointed at companies like BMW, Mercedes, Ford and Fiat. They have done jack sh¡t for environmentally friendly cars.

[PMC]

Hyperspeed wrote:

The biggest finger of shame should be pointed at companies like BMW, Mercedes, Ford and Fiat. They have done jack sh¡t for environmentally friendly cars.

Erm, not sure...  BMW is investing heavily in hydrogen power (See 7 series concept car)

Mercedes?  Pioneered practical diesel power and actively researching biofuels with A class test vehicles.

Ford?  Owns Volvo, who are again sponsoring biofuel research.  Also patented a radiator grille which converts Ozone (O3) to Oxygen (O2).  Ozone is great in the Stratosphere, but at sea level it is often a major cause of childhood asthma and is a by product of heavy industry.  Better known as "smog" in LA.  

Fiat?  Okay, I hate Fiat.  Not because of their environmental credentials but because the damn things break down more often than Britney Spears.  However, the majority of their cars are small engined, economy sized vehicles.  Alfa Romeo can be credited with releasing the first performance diesel in 1997 with the 156 JTD.  150 horsepower and 45mpg?  Was seem here first...

The Japanese brands (especially Honda) seem to understand the importance of lowering emissions.  

If you're looking for an environmental menace try at GM - with brands like Cadillac, Chevrolet and Pontiac, they've sold more V8 engines than anyone else.  Also, GM owned Du-Pont was responsible for lead additives in petrol, plus GM's promising Impact electric car of the early 1990s amounted to nought, despite early promotional films showing an Impact beating a Nissan 200sx to sixty from a standing start. They could have made eco-friendly sexy a decade ago.

Electric cars do have potential to be sexy - an electric motor produces 100% of it's torque from the get go, unlike a petrol engine (my old Golf 1.8 16v needed 4,100 rpm before delivering max pulling power).  Not only that but once the problems of battery weight are solved, an electric motor is small enough to be incorporated into a hub and combined with the braking system to generate power.  Want four wheel drive in a compact hatchback?  Can be done, once the power storage issue is resolved.

However, we need to solve the very non-eco friendly issues involved with producing and disposing of a new generation of electric cars.

[Hyperspeed]

Why's it harder to dispose of a bettery car than a petrol car? Surely it is the oil, coolant, transmission fluids or whatever that are hard to recycle?

A Li-ion battery can be charged thousands of times and you HAVE to recycle those due to EU landfill regulations.

Due to the lighter weight I envisage the next generation of battery cars will have I doubt they'll be piling up in the scrapyard due to crashes or becoming obsolete. A car that's in a zero-tax bracket will become highly desirable especially when oil hits $100 (after the Iran/Venezuela war).

;-)

Oh and where are teh Segways!?

[falemagn]

Another hybrid some of you might be interested in is the VentureOne, a three-wheeled, two seats vehicle which gets classified as a motorcycle but with all the benefits and safety of a car, a mileage of 100Mpg and a way of driving it which promises to be a helluva lotta fun! :-)

[Dandy]

PMC wrote:

...
Ford?  Owns Volvo, who are again sponsoring biofuel research.  Also patented a radiator grille which converts Ozone (O3) to Oxygen (O2).  Ozone is great in the Stratosphere, but at sea level it is often a major cause of childhood asthma and is a by product of heavy industry.  Better known as "smog" in LA.  
...

Ford & Fuel Cell

Ford & Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines

[Hyperspeed]

Modern petrochemical companies and their partners (the major car companies) have no idea what environmental responsibility is.

As long as they can pay dividends to their share holders and the government of their country is prosperous then they will continue to advertise 'new research' and ultimately buy all the patents and bury them.

Shell and BP are prime examples. Neither have sought to capitalise on the 100yr old Diesel engine's capacity for burning vegetable oil.

As for 'bio-diesel' that is 95% mineral diesel, 5% actual vegetable oil.

The solution is to think different, rebel against the defacto and discover your own alternative fuel.

EDIT:
The Evil SMART car