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AuthorTopic: Harald Frank / AROS  (Read 4544 times)

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Offline bhoggett

Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2003, 11:41:01 PM »
@bloodline

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I seem to recall that Harald suggested AROS as the base OS for Amithlon (instead of Linux). But Bernie wasn't happy with that.

That's a new one on me, and it makes no sense if you think about it. Why replace a mature well supported kernel that the programmer is well versed in with something that is both unfinished and unproven, not to mention rather devoid of driver support?

The rather fuzzy idea HF had was to mix AROS and the UAE emulation engine into a commercial product. Presumably he imagined this as AROS with 68k emulation built-in, certainly not with AROS just providing kernel functionality to start the emulation. Bernie rejected it from two points of view, one being that it was unclear how commercial licensing would be handled, and the second being that such a project would be fraught with difficulties. Let's face it, if it was a sensible and practical idea you guys would have it in your roadmap already.

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I have no insider knowledge on the subject, but I suspect Harald might be thinking of using AROS for future Amithlon projects. I think this would be great, as AROS would get drivers and Harald can continue his/the Emulator.

*snigger*
Since Harald does not have the source code to said emulator, one wonders how many "future projects" he can squeeze out of the same product.

More seriously, Harald's objection to Bernie releasing Umilator (or indeed doing any Amiga related work at all) is that all the IP involved in Amithlon is owned jointly by both of them, and neither can use it anywhere else without the other's permission. While most people regard such a claim as spurious, one would have to seek consistency. If Bernie may not use any Amithlon related development or code for any of his projects, then surely Harald cannot contribute any of his own Amithlon contribution to any other project, be it for profit or not.

So it's not a question of whether Harald will respect your license, it's whether Harald has the right to contribute his code in the first place.

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Please, I don't want to get into political arguments about Amithlon, because I simply don't care. The whole incident was ugly and I may not like the way certain people behaved, but that has nothing to do with AROS.


"I'm alright Jack"... but I'll let that pass.

AROS relies not only on the contributors' respecting the AROS license, but also on the contributors' honesty in stating that they have the right to contribute said code into the AROS tree.

The integrity of AROS as a project depends on the integrity of those who contribute to it. Allow that to be tainted and everyone involved will get painted with the same brush.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2003, 11:15:17 AM »
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The integrity of AROS as a project depends on the integrity of those who contribute to it. Allow that to be tainted and everyone involved will get painted with the same brush.


And until I have any evidence to suggest that any AROS dev has acted in an underhand way with respect to AROS, I have no reason to think that anyone will behave in such a way.
As I said, Amithlon was nasty, messy and something which we should all put in the past, and while it was a nice idea I never saw it as a viable solution to running an AmigaOS type OS on x86 hardware, it was weak from the start, it just got killed a little early. If I want to run 68k AmigaOS programs I'll just use UAE.

Anyway, I have no insider knowledge as to what Harald want's to do in the future, but I imagine he would like to make a new emulator system...

Offline pixie

Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2003, 03:44:33 PM »
> As I said, Amithlon was nasty, messy and something which we should all put in the past

It doesn't belong in the past, until Bernie can get a settlement, the problem remains the same and in present time, how's that so hard to understand?

>and while it was a nice idea I never saw it as a viable solution to running an AmigaOS type OS
>on x86 hardware, it was weak from the start, it just got killed a little early. If I want to run 68k
>AmigaOS programs I'll just use UAE.

Well it was weak but feels way faster then AROS, isn't that weird... but hey, because you don't feel it like a viable solution (despite selling very well) doesn't mean it don't deserve to 'live'...


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2003, 04:09:11 PM »
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Well it was weak but feels way faster then AROS, isn't that weird... but hey, because you don't feel it like a viable solution (despite selling very well) doesn't mean it don't deserve to 'live'...


Weak, not in a speed sense, but from a conceptial sense. I loved the idea of Amithlon (I would have approached it in a different and less comercial/user friedly way) but it was nothing more than a toy, in the same was as my poor beloved A1200 is now just a toy (despite being the greatest machine ever made).

No, Amithlon did not deserve to die, I think it was a fun idea. But as far as I'm concerned the dispute is between Harald and Bernie. I may or may not agree with the behaviour of the parties involved, but I try to stay out of other peoples fights. I would like to note that I do not belive Bernie was treated fairly, I think he has behaved exceptionaly throughout this ordeal, unlike others involved in this case.
Moral of this story? trust no one?

I imagine AROS doesn't feel that fast when compared to Amithlon... Concider the flollowing:

1. Amithlon runs programs designed for the old 68K running at 7Mhz (or 50Mhz for some of us) on a CPU running at 1Ghz+. Thid fact alone makes it seem fast.
2. Amithlon had hardware specific drivers, AROS currently uses very clever generic ones.
3. How any CPU intensive tasks have you run on AROS? How many of those tasks have you run on Amithlon?
4. Amithlon is nothing more than an emulator (which isn't that hard to do), AROS is a full OS and is not finished yet.

Offline DaveP

Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2003, 04:43:36 PM »
@bloodline

Wow I can see the flamethrowers already being fuelled up!

Is this deliberate or what? ;-)
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline pixie

Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2003, 05:01:08 PM »
1- Amithlon is able to run Pagestream very well, Play DIVX at full speed and so on, 7mhz simply ain't. Don't forguet it has one of the best and more implemented JIT on the market...

2- Now this is where I think AROS has his main problem

3- Because one can run more programs on Amithlon to test it  then on AROS it's not ones fault  ;-)

4- On Amithlon you can hit the Hardware, on a straight emulator you can't... I don't know if it's easier, but why being easier is worst!? It has lots of benefits...


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline falemagn

Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2003, 05:51:43 PM »
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Well it was weak but feels way faster then AROS, isn't that weird...


Indeed, it is. Could you please elaborate? In what does Amithlon feel faster, exactly?

Did you do any speed measurements?
 

Offline falemagn

Re: Harald Frank / AROS
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2003, 05:53:52 PM »
(edited because I realized *I* had gotten things the wrong way around)