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Offline uncharted

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #29 from previous page: May 04, 2006, 04:22:17 PM »
@B00tDisk

I think you're spot on.  What was needed was for one of the various owners to say, "Right that is it Amiga is dead, no more.  No licences, no IP sales. It's over, go out there and enjoy the sunshine"

Perhaps then everyone would have stopped waiting about for the next miracle and would have taken control over the platform themselves.  There probably would have been splits and wars (there always is) but it probably would not have been as bad as what has been endured.  Something like AROS would have flourished in such an environment.

I still think that there was enough momentum and market back in the late 90's (even as late as 2000 possibly) for there to be a sustainable platform.  All that was needed was a little focus.
 
Quote

B00tDisk wrote:
If the Amiga has a future it's without the zealots, who quite frankly need to go off and find something else to prostelytize about.


Is there anyone else left though?  If feels sometimes that the biggest proportion of the community are complete saddos. :-(
 

Offline KThunder

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2006, 02:07:58 AM »
i think aros could be a success, not a windows beater but deffinitly a success. look at how many people want an alternate os and tried several, but couldnt use them because they were too complex like linux, or pretty useless (pretty but useless) like bunches of others. most of the alternate os's started out with a tiny fan base, maybe a dozen people or so. aros is starting out with quite a bit. lots of people trying it out, developing etc.
also consider that most os freindly apps in open source and public domain should port over very easily as well as many linux/unix stuff needing relatively minor work to port.
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Offline Plaz

Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2006, 03:08:46 AM »
Quote
i think aros could be a success


I agree. I have a side question too that came to mind while reading another thread about programming. How compatible is AROS with progs compiled from Amiga specific languages like AMOS and E?

Plaz
 

Offline itix

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2006, 02:29:49 PM »
Quote

How compatible is AROS with progs compiled from Amiga specific languages like AMOS and E?


It is not binary compatible (except 68k build of AROS). AROS is compatible on the source code level.
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Offline Fransexy_

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2006, 03:25:52 PM »
Quote
Is there anyone else left though? If feels sometimes that the biggest proportion of the community are complete saddos.


For me saddos are the people using windows and be pleased about it  :crazy:
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Offline Plaz

Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2006, 01:55:23 PM »
Quote
It is not binary compatible (except 68k build of AROS). AROS is compatible on the source code level.


Makes sense. So are compilers such as gcc the only native compilers for AROS for now? Any thing else ported yet?

Plaz
 

Offline srg86

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2006, 02:47:19 PM »
@uncharted, @B00tDisk:

I totally agree, as someone who also likes to muck arround with old computers and has used amigas years ago, I feel that all the feeling of the amiga making its 'big comeback' are just spoiling it for everyone. Why can't anyone just be happy with the thing as a hobby machine? :-?

I must admit I haven't seen the point of AROS as it's just another curiosity to me. I did try it a couple of times and didn't see what all the fuss was about. Maybe I've just gotten used to the PC but for me, the OS I use is a means to an end for what I want to do. Mucking arround with an OS for the sake of it had never had the appeal to me as mucking arround the programming and compairing different processor architectures.

BTW, does AROS use memory protection, does does it forsake that for source compatibility with old AmigaOS programs.

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Offline Crumb

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2006, 03:57:35 PM »
/rant mode on

The big problem with OS3, OS4, MorphOS and AROS is (specially with the last one) lack of killer apps, not lack of fast hardware.

AROS for big endian machines (like PPC or ARM configured in bigendian mode) may be able to run 680x0 binaries transparently but most of AROS devs aren't interested in compatibility because they no longer use any amiga program (they use linux or windows).

The old 680x0 apps are better than nothing and many of them are still useful.

AfA is quite important because it helps to improve AROS because lots of people will use it everyday (and the bug reports can end up improving the AROS source tree)

An AROS-PPC release for PowerMacs with builtin 680x0 emulation and a MorphOS wrapper may be enough to keep people interested on running old apps happy (like me).


The biggest incoherency I find in most of AROS developers claims is that they aren't interested on running old apps. If that's true why are you using an obsolete design without memory protection, multiuser, etc? With AROS you have the worst of both worlds: you lack 680x0 compatibility but you also lack memory protection.

The only AROS advantage is that it is free and portable, but as people is more interested in reinventing the wheel (do we really need 4 different SDL flavours? yes... one done by Gabrielle Grecko for OS3.x 680x0, another one for AROS, another one for MorphOS, another one for OS4). And the AROS team instead of merging their code with the main tree of various MCC classes at sourceforge decide that it's better to merge the changes by hand each time an mcc class is updated (we are lucky Geit is trying to adapt SDI includes) and keep an AROS-only source in their repository.

Then they decide that the AmigaOS handler system sucks and implement their own incompatible system. I don't care if it's better or not, but if you think that it's better why don't you also implement memory protection and get rid of the old amigaos3.x api? at least most of AROS developers think that old amiga apps suck, so why keep a sucky API?

OS4 lacks hardware and due to the stupid Amiga Inc licenses will have no future unless the situation changes and hardware appears. MorphOS situation is better in the hardware side but it's clear that money is required to materialize MOS-team dreams about Q-Box  (something I still don't understand is why the team implemented the drivers inside of the not-memory-protected A-Box instead of making a generic driver that wrapped its calls to the real drivers inside the Q-Box. At least the keyboard driver would have been nice so you could reset MOS when it hangs completely. That leads me to think that the q-box is so small and light that it almost doesn't exist)

AROS has some future, but without apps and with the current attitude of developers that give their backs to the current amiga community (that is also splitted also thanks to MOS/OS4/AROS coders who prefer to make own branches instead of adding their code to the main branch and having all versions created automatically) it will have even less future. Some open minded developers have ported their apps to AROS but I rarely see AROS developers porting themselves their apps to other oses (including os3).

Examples of community split:
-2 branches for Mplayer, one for OS4 and one for MOS when 98% of code is the same.
-4 different SDL versions (OS3, AROS, MOS, OS4)
-AROS devs not adding their changes to the sourceforge MCC classes that they use in Zune
-AROS devs not releasing native Zune versions for OS3 regarless of the fact that it started being developed on 68k
-Developers who think that aminet sucks and that everyone should check out their cool webpages who don't upload their stuff to aminet.
-4 or 5 pci libraries (AROS, Prometheus, Mediator, CyberPCI, CyberPCI for MOS, OS4 expansion library PCI interface... isn't great rewritting 4 times the same driver?)
-4 or 5 versions of expat.library, some of these released various times for the same OS (this is caused probably due to authors not using aminet...). I've seen 2 or 3 different expat versions for 680x0, 2 for OS4, another one for MorphOS, another one for AROS. Instead of making a single port and adding some ifdefs or using SDI headers we have various sources spreaded around the world...
-Ignorant AROS users who think that AfA is useless for AROS although it's the only way of testing it with real AmigaOS apps.

UAE for AROS is a worse compatibility solution than WinUAE for Windows. I mean, I prefer to run Windows+WinUAE than AROS-x86 and EUAE.

An aros big endian release for PPC or ARM (in big endian mode) would please some of us if it included 680x0 compatibility and also a MOS wrapper.

Anyway, we lack killer apps (and common apps like a decent browser. Marcik will deserve an statue when he finishes his KHTML port). That's the real problem.

For AROS/OS3/OS4/MOS most of hardware is fast enough. But all the hardware is useless without software. OS4 and MOS at least have 680x0 compatibility and can run useful apps.

Unless everyone that is writting apps for OS3/OS4/MOS turns their head to AROS and starts porting their software it will be a beautiful, fast, portable and efficient -useless- toy

When my amiga interest is low I concentrate on scene stuff (coding classic gfx effects, watching demos and intros...) and that keeps me happy.

Looking at AROS depresses me as much (or more) than OS4 or MOS


/rant mode off


The best thing an user or developer can do is simply enjoying what you have using it to the maximum instead of browsing forums or thinking about the future of the platform. It's just a computer, enjoy it now that it's working, before the capacitors acid eats all the motherboard wires...
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Offline itix

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Re: Future of the Amiga
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2006, 05:05:33 PM »
@Plaz

VBCC port probably exists but I dont know any other compilers available to AROS. Maybe some Basic languages (sdlbasic?) or script languages are available. No idea really.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook