New pirate eBay goods: demo DVD

[j_tramiel]

Well actually I am the creator of the DVD, I didn't just download it I spent a weekend making it, and was so pleased with the outcome, I decided to sell it.

All of the demos have their credits intact, so I am not claiming credit for them as my own either.

[motorollin]

kd7ota wrote:
If it is downloadable by anyone, then use it as you want. As long as your not taking credit that you made it all yourself, then it should be fine.

That's not true. Just because it's freely downloadable from a web site doesn't mean you have the right to redistribute it, even if the software is considered to be freeware.

I have seen lots of software on Aminet which states that it is not to be distributed on CD compilations. Did you check all of these when compiling your CD? And for the ones which stated they were not to be compiled and sold on, did you contact the authors and get permissions?

I agree that this is not as bad as people selling compilations of commercial Amiga games, but even so, you cannot assume you have the right to redistribute other people's work just because it was available to you on the Internet.

--
moto

[j_tramiel]

Yes, I did consider that actually.
These programs were not downloaded from Aminet, they were sourced from PD houses back in the mid-nineties, like I said they are all from my personal PD collection.  These files all came from legitimate PD houses who distributed them on disks for 2 to 3 pounds each.

As such I can vouch with quite a bit of certainty that the content on my DVD is freely distributable.

Isn't this discussion all getting a bit pedantic and silly now?

Why don't you go and hound some pirates or something, and get off my goddamn case?

[motorollin]

Sorry but the same applies with software from PD houses. Some developers just don't want their software bunged on CDs/DVDs as part of a compilation. They may choose to distribute through the 'net, or by PD houses, but still prefer for their software not to be distributed on CDs.

I understand what you're trying to do by compiling your collection so others can benefit. But you can't assume developers are happy for you to do this.

--
moto

[CdreCommodore]

On the other site you said:

(I'm betting they wouldn't be complaining if it was offered as a free download though) Bloody hypocrites!

I said exactly that.  Why is that hypocritical?  I have downloaded and enjoyed many fan compilations of demos.  The creators of that content created and distributed it for free, and there's no reason why the content can't be redistributed.

But taking their content and moving it another medium to try to sell it without their approval is lame.

You had five DVDs listed at 4 GBP each, 20 GBP total, approximately $35 USD right now.  There's no way it costs that much to burn five discs and mail them (discs only) to people in your own country.  You were offering them for 1 GBP to your friends at the other forum, and you turned down someone else who asked about it and told them to buy it from you on eBay.

That's not something a person does because they're a fan, that's something they do because they want to make a few quid.

If you're just trying to show off what you can do with the Amiga and spreading the word about the talents of demo coders, why not make use of this big distribution center for bits called the Internet?  You could spread it around without selling it.  Why not do it?

[cv643d]

Remember the Spaceballs demo CD available 10 years ago?

I heard that the Spaceballs crew did not do anything on it and dit not get any money either. And that was a commercial CD (it was later offered for free with Amiga Format).

I just want to add my thoughts again. Thank you so much for the effort of putting together such a cool DVD

I author DVD's myself and understand completely how much effort and time goes into completing a nicely put together title.

As for the PD / Freeware / Shareware / bollocks argument I repeat, if any of the authors or coders don't like it they will probably be sending solicitors letters as we speak. So thats that!

Also I am going to order a copy for the following reasons;

1: Cos it is a cool compilation.
2: Cos it will really piss off some of the peeps in here.
3: (see 2:)
4: Err...oh I said that in 3:

Keep up the good work, and as Fletch used to say "don't let the {bleep}s gring you down"  :-D

I just want to add my thoughts again. Thank you so much for the effort of putting together such a cool DVD

I author DVD's myself and understand completely how much effort and time goes into completing a nicely put together title.

As for the PD / Freeware / Shareware / bollocks argument I repeat, if any of the authors or coders don't like it they will probably be sending solicitors letters as we speak. So thats that!

Also I am going to order a copy for the following reasons;

1: Cos it is a cool compilation.
2: Cos it will really piss off some of the peeps in here.
3: (see 2:)
4: Err...oh I said that in 3:

Keep up the good work, and as Fletch used to say "don't let the {bleep}s gring you down"  :-D

p.s. Just a thought, but why not go after the guy on ebay who was selling two DVD's stuffed to the brim with Amiga software cleverly disquised so that only peeps in the know would know what it was. (Clue to see if you can fiqure, 68k was mentioned)
Anyhow we bought 4 copies (for legitimate backup reasons)

Oh, and the Fletch quote that was mucked up by the censor was "Don't let the (children of un-married parents) grind you down.
 :-D

oops, sorry for double post, tired. Or is it cos the Amiga gives you twice at much fun while some of its supporters are twice as annoying? Dunno. One of lifes mysteries I guess.  :-o

[Tomas]

wish the Mindcandy guys would hurry up and finish their (legit) Amiga demo DVD project. Are there any other fan compilations out there besides the Amiga Museum DVDs that can be downloaded?  There is a link at that other message board to two C64 demo DVDs you can download via BitTorrent.

So what is the difference in the legal status with this project and the Mindcandy one? Do the mindcandy project somehow get permission from all the demo makers? I dunno what this guy is selling them at, but i thought it was perfectly legal to distribute public domain stuff, as long as he/she only take charge for the media costs itself and shipping..

I was thinking of doing something similar myself, but instead host them on the internet for free in either mpeg2 or some mpeg4 format. I dont see how this would be illegal, as long as i dont make a profit from it. All i want to do is make them avaliable for the people without an Amiga.

[Tomas]

j_tramiel wrote:
Hmmm, I read this thread after I was informed of it and COULDN'T BELIEVE what the first 3 people who posted were spouting about!!!

Amiga Demos were released into the Public Domain, I am not even offering the code for sale, I am offering a nostalgic bit of video.  So please explain how this is piracy?

As for my other Amiga related DVD, well its full of PUBLIC DOMAIN software.  No kickstart roms, no commercial games, just PD from my personal stash, that I decided to convert into ADF's and create a compilation, heck there are even some of my own PD creations on there.  So just what is your problem here?

The only reason I have them listed at such a cost is to cover listing fees, paypal fees, media costs, postage costs, printing costs and of course my own hard work that went into these.

It was supposed to be a kind of service for people who had Amigas in the old days, but didn't have the means of reliving their youth, by which I mean an Amiga / Emulator and the demo files.  You must remember, not everyone who loved the Amiga and the Demo Scene is still 1337, many people wouldn't have the first idea about running an emulator or even creating a DVD.

And another thing, the whole essence of the Demo Scene was to show off what you could make an Amiga do and things like this can only help to spread the word about the talents of the demo coders.

There, thats my rant over.

I really cannot see what your problem is here, and whats more I seem to be getting blamed for single-handedly bringing down the Commodore empire!!

Its people like you 3 that actually damage the scene, because everyone is sh*t-scared of being called a theif / pirate / etc..

PS  I didn't even know about this Mindcandy thing until I read it here.  I made a similar thing on VHS back in the mid 90's and thought it would be cool to do a more up to date one using the technology of the day.  Who says though, that my DVD and the Mindcandy DVD's cannot exist in the same market?  Aren't we living in a democracy where freedom of choice is the order of the day.

Whups, I'm ranting again.  Sorry for the length of this post, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Thanks for reading, I will shut up now.

If what you say is true, then i totally agree with you and respect what you are doing. This sounds perfectly legal to me and actually is something that i think is a good thing for the community. If this would be illegal, then what about the amiga demoscene archive, back2roots and all other websites hosting public domain stuff?? Sad how certain people like to scream piracy over everything..

[Tomas]

The problem, in my not so humble opinion, is taking the work of others and selling it for a profit. I sincerely doubt that demo creators created content so that other people could take and make money from it.

I dont know what he is charging for these demo dvds, since the link was removed by a moderator. But if he is telling the truth, then he is simply not making profit but instead only take a charge for the media costs, shipping and such.. This is what they do with free linux distributions as well.. You can download it for free over internet, but you must pay a small charge to have a cd shipped over to your address. Without this charge, this would not be possible without getting economically ruined.

Hey, do you think if we keep "winding the pedantic sod's up" that we can get to over 50 posts?  :lol:

[CdreCommodore]

@Tomas

Do the mindcandy project somehow get permission from all the demo makers?

Like I said, yes.  See:  http://www.demodvd.org/contents

I was thinking of doing something similar myself, but instead host them on the internet for free in either mpeg2 or some mpeg4 format.

Requesting DVD ISO image, please.   :-D

If this would be illegal, then what about the amiga demoscene archive, back2roots and all other websites hosting public domain stuff??

None of those sites charge you for the content.

I dont know what he is charging for these demo dvds, since the link was removed by a moderator.

Like I said, he had five DVDs listed at 4 GBP each, 20 GBP total, approximately $35 USD.

You can download it for free over internet, but you must pay a small charge to have a cd shipped over to your address.

You can't download this guy's DVD.

[_ThEcRoW]

Oh my God!!!. What is all this fuss about?. We are talking about demos and PD stuff, not commercial games or applications, so what's the problem?. The guy offering it only  sell it at a media/production cost, so i doubt he will become millionaire in the process. Really some people in this community never cease to amaze me.