Boycott & computer products.

[toRus]

Hi Smerf,

So far this has not happened to Mr. Bush and you want to know why, it is because we like what he is doing

So you are free to vote between Clinton (invador of Yougoslavia) and George "the bomber" Bush (invador of Iraq). LOL !! Now that is freedom ! Get a clue, you have no options. Regardless which part wins the outcome will be the same. Terroririse foreign countries in order to ensure your economical and political interests.

... freeing the people of Iraq, getting rid of a bully dictator that has tortured, raped and killed many people since his reign of terror

Nobody asked you to play this role and you certainly didn't have the right.

Sorry dude but these guys are hero's they fight for our country by the Presidents orders, some of them may even think that this war is wrong since we were not struck first by Iraq,

They are not anything more than paid killers dude. They shoot and kill on orders. It's their job.

Today while watching the news I saw to little Iraq girls smiling as they walked away from our "paid soldiers" with food and water, both girls were between the ages of 10 and 12 and they looked happy during this terrible time.

You should better watch a Hollywood movie because it would have more trues than what your media channels are showing you.
This is the same policy USA has followed for decades. Destroy a country then give chocolates to kids while bullish economically and politically the country (and its nearby region). Ask them if they have any choice but cheer for Americans now.

Wake up dude. It has nothing to do with "liberation" and freedom. It has to do with power, money and oil.

I never liked Saddam. I don't like me as much as Bush (or any other USA president). That doesn't give you the right to invade in another country, especially when United Nations and many contries oppose to this.

I love those Oakland police and how they put down those BS peace demonstrations. Tell me if these people are so involved with peace, why did they throw soda pop bottles and rocks at the Oakland police.

I am sure you would prefer to have them shot with real bullets, wouldn't you ? There is nothing like peace. if you don't get this, take your gun and your cowboy hat and start shooting at people.

[amigamad]

@takemehomegrandma

) Caused cracks in many governments. Some good UK ministers has even resigned.

no good ministers resigned only that tosser robin cook the person that once sent arms to a country which gave them to kids of 14 .and claire cook  who changed her mind after her stupid outburst .

[MarkTime]

@Smerf

I don't know how many people have to tell you and in how many different ways, before you will understand.  The war in Iraq is not related to 9/11.  It wasn't justified in those terms, and they aren't related.

Your man George Bush can freely say that, if he wanted...he isn't saying that....no one is saying that, except you.  Where do you dream this stuff up?

You know Alcaida terror cells operated in America, trained at American flight schools, used American dollars to fund some of their operations...maybe you want to say the United States supports Alcaida too?  We don't, of course.

The reason that argument about Iraw was never made, is because it isn't a true statement.  For all the horrible things he did...he didn't do that one...gotta remember Hussein was part of a specific tribe...all Arabs are not the same, there are divisions in the Arab world...Saddam didn't happen to be a big supporter of Alcaida.

Do you remember Afghanastan...now there was a government that supported Alcaida...and you know what, we went in there and removed that government.  Destroyed the taliban....And everyone supported that, including me.  There was hardly a voice of concern, even in the international community about that.

But where did you get the idea, that we have a license to invade any country at any time now?  because of 9/11??

That just isn't logical thinking, that is your emotions talking.  It is up to America to make responsible decisions.

And I'll be very blunt...we bombed a civilian restaurant because we thought Saddam Hussein might be eating there.  We killed children and women, and WE, this country, decided it was acceptable.

Thats very wrong.

Saddam Hussein deserves to die, and he will die.  We will catch him, but bombing civilians because we have to get him today, we can't get him next week?  That is incredible.

And, its wrong.

And, being a tough guy won't prevent deaths.  Thats where you are wrong.    Eventually,  the Tim McVeighs of this world will be commonplace.  That is, if we keep heading down this path.

I hope it never happens....you and I have the same goals, but I don't agree that this is the right solution.

[amigamad]

@smerf

well said .did you see the people of iraq on the news when the americans pulled a statue of sadam the scumbag down for them they were so happy they jumped on it smacked their shoes into it and they got a hammer and smashed his head off and dragged it up the street, a day before i see an iraqi driving a coach dragging a boat behind it with no trailer, all the anti war people must be well upset that these people are being given freedom and hapiness and they are very happy  made me happy to see these people smiling and cheering . :-D

[mdwh2]

smerf wrote:
Wake up and smell the bombs, it is better for them to fall over there than over here where our children are,

From my own personal point of view, it is better if bombs fall on someone else's heads than my head. But that applies to everyone, and it doesn't make one case more right than the other.

at least we try to miss civilian's do they?

Yes. Why do you think they don't?

How many military men did they take out in 9/11?

I've never quite understood the argument that military deaths are okay, but civilian deaths aren't.

Where this argument applies is if a soldier is invading a country and shooting people - it can reasonably argued that it is necessary to shoot him, where as it's unfair to shoot random passerbys.

But in Iraq or Afganistan, the soldiers were defending their country, so I don't think that makes them fair targets. On top of that, I believe many in the army (in Iraq at least) are conscripts.

The only way these deaths are less unacceptable is in the sense that they are less avoidable - if your target is an enemy tank, it's difficult to destroy it without killing the occupants. On the other hand, bombing a residential area generally doesn't have any useful value.

But 9/11 was not an attack on a residential area! If you want to hurt America economically, militarily and politically, going after the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon and the White House seem obvious targets.

So in summary, I see Iraqi deaths as unacceptable as deaths in 9/11, and civilian vs military doesn't come in to it.

It's difficult to know the scale of Iraqi deaths. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52531-2003Apr7.html suggests between 2000 and 4000 soldiers, and between 877 and 1050 civilians have died.

[Hammer]

I thought I would never post political comments in a computer portal. I just couldn't resist with all the BS I see in this forum.

You have not defined the BS specifically.

First of all, USA is not a free country (certainly not more free than most others).

Defined most.

If I go to a Bush's political meeting and shout "You are a fool" or "You are a murderer" I would be arrested.

IF that’s true, Green peace and anti-war-protesters should have been arrested “by the masses”.

USA has a political system that Americans call "democracy".

Point being?

Is it much better having the illusion that you are free;

Define illusion.

[Waccoon]

Smurf:  Secondly no you won't be arrested for calling President Bush a fool in America. The police may come in and drag you out because you are making a scene but that would be all (in other words you would be asked forcibly to make like a tree and leave).

I dare you to try it!  Where I live, if you call a police officer on obscenity, they can legally haul you off to a cell for the night for "disorderly conduct".  Also, to sue the government, you need the government's permission.  I think it's a better system than anything else, but calling it "free" is a stretch.

Siggy:  Funny thing is, you're probably also promoting American industry more by doing it. That Subaru was more than likely built in country - and the Ford your dad bought is more than likely built out of the country.

If you live in America, it's hard not to promote American industry.  But...

The Subaru I bought was built in Japan and shipped to America through the Panama Canal.  So was the Impreza my brother-in-law bought.  His WRX came off the very first shipment of 2000 Subarus in North America.   :-)

It's worth pointing out that many Japanese cars are built or assembled in America.  Toyotas, for example, are mostly made in California.  Many of the parts still come from foreign countries, though.

As for Fords, I don't know for sure.  But the window sticker says that 100% of engine and transmission parts are "made" in America.  They also give a percentage of parts for the rest of the car, but I forget what it is.  Of course, that assumes the numbers are accurate.  I don't care enough about Ford to research it.   ;-)

Wait... wasn't this forum about computers?  This war is nothing more than a huge distraction.  Where's the news coverage for the 2004 elections?!

[MarkTime]

@amigamad

You are too simplistic.  The fact is, as I hate strong armed tactics, and the worst offender of all is Saddam Hussein.

For all the bad decisions our government may have made, it isn't anything on par with the type of cruel, horrible tyrant Saddam Hussein is...I don't feel sorry for him at all.   Given that he needed to be brought to justice, what is the best way?  Not *IF* but how...

The best way, would have been for the iraqi ppl to do it, but they never did.  But, nevertheless I am reminded of the many other options that don't include bombing children at restaurants.

Is it OK to consider them?

For some reason I think of Nicaragua, I guess because its an example where we tried to fund Contra rebels instead of invading ourselves, but its a bit of a lousy example.  We supported the Samoza dictatorship for 40 years, and then when the people of Nicaragua FINALLY got rid of their dictator without our help, we then set about to destroy the Sandinistas....a government that took the illiteracy rate from 50% down to 13%...had free elections resulting in their party winning in a popular vote as well, but still we funded the contra's forcing the government to spend almost all its resources on defense.

Well that isn't a shining example of how to do it either....but its another option to consider.

We talk about the need to stop the Hitler's of the world, but  how would have we stopped Stalin, Lennon, or Mao, even with 20/20 Hindsight....anyone going to suggest invading the one billion plus China?
Or a nuclear force, like Russia?

Eventually we will need to have some solutions in mind that will work against countries that aren't almost completely defenseless, so we should think about it....in some cases we will have to think about persuasion.

And considering that Hitler was freely elected, God forbid, but what if we ever elect a madman?  (no we haven't done that, I support our president, as our president, even if I don't agree with his decisions and will vote against him)....but what if we ever did, remember....a president doesn't need to consult congress before starting wars, he has absolute control.  We keep removing all our safety nets, calling them loopholes, instead of what they really were, which is thoughtful checks based on a study of history and abuses that occur with power.

I'm not a liberal, but I will say one thing, I believe absolutely is true.  People like Timothy McVeigh, they weren't a result of too much love.  Tim McVeigh knew people hated him (or thought they did), and he hated them back.

hate breads hate...it doesn't make the world safer.
Go ahead and criticize pacifists if you want, a true pacificist isn't going to kill you, and in the end, its the people doing the killing that are the problem.  I think hating pacifists is a bit silly.

I'm no pacifist.....I was in the Army myself...oh ya, no kidding....

I am just concerned about the pro-war fever, it's too nationalistic, it isn't tempered with caution.  It's too one sided.

In short, its scary.  But I will be glad when the war is over, and I do think, that one good thing that will come of it, is a better government in Iraq, and I am happy for the Iraqi people in that regard.

[toRus]

...all the anti war people must be well upset that these people are being given freedom and hapiness and they are very happy  made me happy to see these people smiling and cheering . :-D

You are happy you saw a few hundred people (many of them being USA troops and reporters) cheering on the fallen Saddam statue. Baghdad population is 5.6 million. I bet there was a better percentage of people cheering for Nazis intruders while they were parading in their countries. It's a miracle what a little propaganda and a few dollars can do. Those people don't have an option but cheer for USA soldiers. It's a bit difficult to act differently against those having the guns, isn't it ?

[unclewilli-amigalover]

hey, i gona buy amiga os4. i dont care where it comes from. its kinda hard really to boycott everyone for the missleadings of a few high level people. i mean, it was not the french people that made the choice, not to go to war / sell wepons to folks they should not have, their leaders make mistakes like our leaders can or have done in the past. sure there is always people for and against things, and when we live in a country ,were bound by that leaders rules/notions/laws etc.
(just an idea) uncle willi

[oldman3000t]

You right, I did see a bigger respond when the Germans went into Pairs.  I
think France owns 8 billion dollars to the UE, they own billions to other
countries.  I believe the USA payes 85% of the cost of the UN.  I think that
the jails being open in Iraq today is great, I am glad that the 150 kids
could go back to there Mom and Dads.  Thank you France for selling all those
good weapon systems, thanks you germany for those bunker, and yes to the US
companies which we'll find out about and do our house cleaning too.

last item, if you are going to let more countries into the UE, lead, pay
your bills, don't wait 3 years and let your other countries suffer, that is
wrong, you all work as one, as long as you think like France or do what they
tell you, except for paying your bills I hope.  Don't worry about Africa,
were going to help them, after your done killing them.

[smerf]

Hi gary_c,

Well lets see Iraq invaded Kuwaite, Kuwaite asked for our help to oust Iraq troops out of kuwaite, We did it, (oust Iraq troops out of Kuwaite), Usama Bin Laden (head of the al queda) says that he will attack the lowly infidels of America for even thinking of setting foot on Arab holy land. usama bin laden plans and pays for the attack on twin towers killing 3000 people FOR OUR ATTACK ON IRAQ, America wipes out Afganistan causing al queda and taliban to run like the cowards they are, usama hides. Now for the good part, America goes back to Iraq for weapons of mass destruction, ousts saddam out of power wipes out his troops and frees the Iraq people. Hey usama are you really pissed now, show your cowardly head because America is in a fighting mood and would like to get two terrorists for the price of one. Our President said terroists where ever they are we will hunt them out and destroy them. How come you liberal's aren't complaining about are troops in the Phillipines?  they are doing the same thing there to the abu sayah. Oh you really haven't noticed, it's not big enough to bitch about.

Why do we have troops in france, germany, S. Korea, and Japan. I'll tell you why to protect their butts if they are attacked, no one complains about that. Let us draw our troops out france and germany would cry and why? because our troops spend billions of dollars in their country.  

[you forgot to mention the women that have died,]

You know you are very right here, must be because I am from old military where women were not allowed in combat. Lets forget about our disagreements at this time on war monger and dove and drop our heads and say a prayer for these brave soldiers.

For those of you who think that they are America's paid mercenaries please say a prayer for them and their families anyhow,  Thanks Smerf.

Now for those of you who think that I am down on the french and germans, thats good, I am, it is really disappointing that two of our most trusted allies abandoned us during this time. Personally back in 1991 I wanted to finish the job and get saddam out of power back then, I was willing to die to do it after what I saw in Kuwaite, and after what I saw during this war I still agree that America did the right thing, personally when I see some one that kills children the hairs on back of my head bristle, my upper lip starts to quiver and I want to fight, and kill. These innocent children have no political views, they just want to play and have fun and learn. It is what we teach these children which will bring peace on earth.  I thought my generation would at least stop war for the next 20 - 30 years once the cold war was over, a safe world for our children, but you know what we always have some dumb a-- hole who messes things up and we have to fight again, no war is not glorious, it is a freakin mess, people get hurt and killed. Watch the news see what these people went through to please the rich and keep the Iraq rich, rich. I just hope this brings out that cockaroach bin laden out of his hole so that we can exterminate him and his clan of killers.

Smerf

Believe it or not I am not a war monger, I hate war, America hates war, but get our ire up and watch out.

History has proven "America hates sneak attacks"

[smerf]

Hi asian1,

Guess I won't be gettin a new Amigaone after all.

That is really to bad because I really like my Amiga 3000, 1200, CD32 and Amiga 1000.

Hey maybe I can use Linux on my Amigaone, that wouldn't break the boycott.

If those countries boycott our chip makers, they can buy a lot of abacus's

Smerf

[smerf]

Hi siggy,

Nice to hear from you again.

"spend your dollars on a U.S. product that runs sweat shops in the third world to turn a profit...."

This is also one of those rich people things started by the liberals, you know the news headlines a couple of years ago when vice president gore took boeing and general motors over to china to start up manufacturing plants there to save these big mega buck companies money so that they could shut down several plants in America and put thousands of American workers out of work, of course their justification along with gore's was why should we pay an American worker $21.00 an hour when we could pay a chinese $21.00 a week to do the same thing, gore really likes good business sense and the other country sweatshops.

"Now if all 100 of you will kindly pick up your brooms and go back to work....."

Hey after the liberals ran the goverment for the past 8 years the American worker options are to sweep floors or work at a hamburger stand and quite frankly I am a lousy cook.

I hear clinton is going to start a cigar factory, the name of the cigar is going to be monica sweets.

by the way I can't really boycott french products they are to expensive for my budget.

Smerf

 

[smerf]

Hi toRus,

Hey dude, name one country that America has defeated that we still own and that hasn't prospered after we have helped them rebuild.

We don't call it terrorizing, we just like to defend our interests throughout the world. It takes a lot of goods from other countries to make this country run and be free and we don't need some dictator dickwheat from some small third world piss ant country messing us up.

"They are not anything more than paid killers dude"

No they are American's being paid to defend their country and keep us free, otherwise we would have a lot of third world piss ant countries trying to destroy us.  You don't stay free without good intelligence and a good military force to defend yourself with.


"Ask them if they have any choice but cheer for Americans now"

Sorry dude but most oppressed countries when freed from a terrifying dictator will cheer. You know this is something every American watched today, the reaction of the Iraq people, we really wanted to know if we did right or wrong, this was President Bush's pass or failure day, if the people would of boo'ed our military then we would have known we done wrong, but since they cheered us and gave our soldiers flowers and tore down saddam's statue then I get a pretty good feeling we did right. Now don't tell me our news media made it look that way because they did show people that were mad about our bombs killing members of their family during this war, for these people I truly grieve and they have  a right to be angry with us. This kind of stuff happens in every war, we felt the same pain after 9/11. Collatoral damage as it is called is regrettable, but shown that 95% of the Iraq population is thanking President Bush, I think we done fairly well in this war. Low civilian and American deaths has shown the world that we can fight a pretty good antiseptic war.

"It has to do with power, money and oil."

Get out of town you blow hard, I wil be the first one in line to impeach President Bush if this is what this war was about and I will probably have to fight with 350 million other Americans to have this right if that was true, it is sort of against our grain to strike the first blow unless we really know something is going on.

I sort of have to laugh at peace demonstrators, they are yelling peace as they throw rocks, soda pop bottles and bricks at our police, remember these police are just doing there job, they have families to go home to too, how would you like to have your wife told that you were killed by a brick that struck you in the head during a peace demo. Get Real. As for the red marks on their necks they deserved it, and no I wouldn't have used real bullets just a bigger night stick.

By the way how did you know I wore a cowboy hat?

Smerf

[Siggy]

@Smerf

I must admit I find your replies both amusing and confusing at the same time.

It seems (in replies to me anyway) to be continuous sprout of 'liberal liberal money rich moviestar liberal'

The one 'fact' you may have gleaned is that I do work in News -- this doesn't necesarily make me 'rich' (photojournalists don't work on that side of the camera). And 'liberal' seems to be a derogatory slur you use for 'people who don't agree with me' - I think I'm supposed to take offence at it.. but more on that later.

Whatever the 'liberal' government (correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the name of that party was the Democrats) did 8 years ago is no concern of mine -- I didn't live in America, and as such had no sway over their actions.

In your terminology that would make me a 'wetback' .
So any effect those statements are supposed to have are lost on me.. You may as well be calling me a 'Bandersnatch' for all the insultive value 'liberal' has (i.e. none)

Now that said and done - if can can work up from the son of coalminer in a land far far away,  through the military and educate myself through University, then move overseas and manage to live a successful life (without, I might add, any Government assistance - I don't come from the 3rd world), then any fault with your own life is from within yourself.
It probably has very little to do with what those 'darn liberals' did, or those 'rich liberals'  say or what 'that hoochie momma liberal President' did.

It has to do with yourself.

It's easy to point the finger and be angry at the world - but the simple fact remains that it's much easier to bitch than to actually strive..

As for Clinton -- who cares?  Why the 'Leader of the Free World' couldn't get him some decent looking tail is more cause for concern than where he put his cigar...

Siggy.