Piracy on two counts

[dannyp1]

I also would be upset if I bought software on EBay that was presented as being original and when it arrived was a copy.  But on the other hand if I bought something that was listed as being a back-up I would know exactly what I was getting and would buy it only if an original was not available.  In my mind if a company stops making and selling a software title they are more or less giving up the ability to make money off of that software.  If you read the small print on a lot of software you are not buying the software but only a license to use it.  In those cases it is illegal to sell the original copy for someone elses use.  The "only-original can be sold" crowd around here never seem to take this into account when passing judgement on others.  They have drawn a moral line in the sand which is not always the legal line.  Believe me, if the copyright owner has a problem with their software being illegally sold they will do something about it.  We don't have to.  I know this from first hand expierence with MicroSoft by having two different items I was selling taken off from EBay.  Both times they were new still sealed software that was original but was meant to be sold with a computer system.  I still think I had the right to sell them but MicroSoft and the law said otherwise, and they didn't need some do-gooder with nothing better to do than worry about someone else's business to tell them.  They actively protect what is theirs.  This is not the case with 10 and 20 year old Amiga software that hasn't been available for that long from the publisher.  Over 90% of Amiga software is abandon-ware in the true sense.

Dan      :getmad:

[LoadWB]

I'd be especially upset since the WHDLoad installers require originals.

[Vlabguy1]

I missed it..what was he selling??  

Rich
ny

Cyberus wrote:
Not only copyrighted software (the sticking point being the fact that the guy's SELLING it), but he even half-inched the A.Org logo!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98929&item=8208728157&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Vlabguy1]

Someone Please list this guys EBAY name.. on this site..

Thanks
Rich
ny

sweetlilmre wrote:
Amiga DVDs

Another lot. Interestingly enough this collection contains NightLong. The seller specifically states:

"Note to ebay staff: The version of software contained on this CD is public domain."

Nightlong is PD?!? If so where can I get it from?
-(e)

[zhulien]

dannyp1 wrote:
They have drawn a moral line in the sand which is not always the legal line.
Dan      :getmad:

Let's look at it another way... so you are happy to screw over the few remaining retailers who may specialise in selling both new and used software for uncommon systems (eg: amstrad cpc, c64, amiga) but not the current developers?

[zhulien]

I guess if you ignore laws and base things on morals, everyone has different values.  eg: you don't mind people selling pirated stuff if it doesn't hurt current developers (even though it hurts current retailers) and I don't mind people pirating stuff for their own purpose as long as they don't sell it... there's probably other grounds too.  yes, i do download Amstrad CPC games and play them, and still buy NEW/used originals for it too (even though it's a 1984 computer!).  I don't play Amiga games though and recently sold off all my Amiga games (not utilities) and got good prices mind you.  I use the utilities on my Pegasos 2 and hense I kept the originals.

[dannyp1]

I think you kind of made my point for me with your post.  You don't want a moral judgement, you want a legal one.  Well I'm willing to bet that some of the original software you sold was licensed to you to use.  By you selling it you were illegally transferring the license.  That is ignoring the law just as much as someone downloading an illegal copy.  Either way it takes a sale away from the original publisher.  Laws were broken both ways.  You made your own moral judgement that one was OK to do and the other wasn't.  

You also made my point when you stated that you got good prices for the programs you sold.  Most people do want to own a "legal" version of the software and are willing to pay for it.  Also many people acquire illegal games, try them out and like them, and then try to acquire an original.  

It really boils down to eliminating the ability to acquire a large amount of the software for the Amiga from present and future hobbiests.  This won't help the community grow and prosper, it will kill it.

[LoadWB]

dannyp1 wrote:
By you selling it you were illegally transferring the license.  That is ignoring the law just as much as someone downloading an illegal copy.  Either way it takes a sale away from the original publisher.  Laws were broken both ways.  You made your own moral judgement that one was OK to do and the other wasn't.

No, legally this falls under the Doctrine of First Sale.

You also made my point when you stated that you got good prices for the programs you sold.  Most people do want to own a "legal" version of the software and are willing to pay for it.  Also many people acquire illegal games, try them out and like them, and then try to acquire an original.  

It really boils down to eliminating the ability to acquire a large amount of the software for the Amiga from present and future hobbiests.  This won't help the community grow and prosper, it will kill it.

I have a number of illegitimate software and games that I have acquired by way of numerous acquisitions of hardware and software, or unmarked boxes of Amiga stuff.  Some of them I have tried out and decided that I would like to replace them with the originals. To me, doing so is not about supporting the original developers or distributors who are either not interested in the Amiga or just plain gone, but instead supporting those who have remained custodian over the items for however many years.  I often buy new or used things from recognized dealers supporting the community.  I also will buy from those who owned and used and cared for the items over the years, and I prefer to deal with those who love the spirit rather than those who wish to profit from it.

When I sell my stuff I am not doing so to "make a profit," I want to sell to someone who will appreciate and love them as much as I did.  I feel that is a greater tribute to the original developers and to the hobbyist community.

[zhulien]

I generally don't buy software to support anyone.  I buy it because I want an original.  I am not going to "pay" for a copy.  I won't actually pay for a download either (like Nintendo Wii Virtual Console games or things from itunes) for the reason, I want an original physical product.

As for licencing.  I don't really care much for that.  The fact I've bought something, that's enough for me.  Heck, what was I supposed to do with my MS Windows XP which I bought?  Tick I don't agree and therefore write off the money I bought it for?  No, I tick agree regardless because I bought it.  If they wanted me to agree to something, they should have got me to agree BEFORE selling it to me.  Having said that, I haven't actually broken their EULA as far as I know, but it doesn't stop me totally disagreeing with it.

zhulien wrote:
...
whether the copyright laws are moral or not, whether you pirate for personal use or not (ie: rip your music cds for listening on your computer), honestly I couldn't care less, but... what I hate is buying software on ebay and receiving pirated stuff.  if they were outright open and said they were selling pirated software, fine, I'll just avoid it.  the amount of pirated gameboy advance games are actually so bad on ebay that I just cannot buy gameboy advance games anymore from there.  and no, I don't think amiga, c64, amstrad cpc software are ok to sell pirated.

Recently, there has been a guy selling replicas of the Commodore 64 Promenade C1 EPROM burner machine.

But he makes it clear these are replicas and he sells them for about 100$ each.

The real machine I have seen sell in the past for up to 300$ but from a functional point of view, there is no difference between the real thing and the replica. The both work just as well.

However, some smart ass from Hong Kong bought a bunch of these replicas only to later sell them as the original thing... no need to mention the collectors who bought these replicas were quite pissed.

I find it right to replicate a product, software or hardware, if the owner of the intellectual property has made it explicit they couldn't care that people make copies, as was the case with the Promenade but at least sell them for what they are.

[zhulien]

eslapion wrote:
I find it right to replicate a product, software or hardware, if the owner of the intellectual property has made it explicit they couldn't care that people make copies

I agree