Amiga One or Pegasos?

[Spidey]

Hello DaveP,

A lot is said on this subject since my post earlier today. But to answer your question:

I've got the Peg1 here (I'm writing this mail on it with IBrowse2.3reg :-))
This board is the same as the pictures circulating on the net, so it has PCI and a AGP slot.
My confusion was just about the Peg2 board. I read only the comments on Amiga.Org so I dropped my confusion here, that's it.

I'm not a guy who wants to speculate about stuff (though it's fun to read it :-D).
I could say that Genesi are making stuff behind curtains, but I don't know it for sure, I've just heard it. Or I could discuss the betatesting of OS4 at this moment. I just don't know how much is integrated in the Exec, so I stay away from saying something about that part too.

When it comes, people will evaluate it and then we can compare these two systems in speed and performance.
That is what I think about this whole stuff.

There is only one thing I feel I'm cheated with and that's the 50 Euro coupon deal.
The day I decided to pay for it, I heared and read that the A1 was about to be released and that day was 07 july 2002!! Until now I didn't get anything from Amiga Inc. the only guys I will support are Hyperion. I'll buy OS4 and that's it.

Spidey

[Rogue]

Darth_X wrote:

However, I am concerned about the missing features (see my signature) and the lack of answers from either AmigaInc or Hyperion regarding this.

ACM is an AmigaDE project only. If you are looking for a component model in general, I can tell you that the new shared library system comes close. It is missing a central registry in the sence that you cannot create components by GUID or string ID, but that would be easily added.

Audio is implemented using AHI, as is clearly stated in the feature list. OS 4.x with x > 0 will have reworked audio/graphics/multimedia.
 

(By the way, does anyone know who is developing the web browser for AmigaOS4?)

IBrowse will be included. See the interview with Stefan Burstrom recently, or the OS 4 feature list

OS 4 will be similar to AmigaOS BTW, not MacOS X. We're trying to get some of the better features from other OSes included, but "similar" is too strong a term, and hardly desirable...

[Lando]

DaveP wrote:
Childish. So everyone who doesn't agree with you is not right minded?

People who can't see the truth when it is laid out in front of their eyes in black and white.

Can you think of anyone with more expertise in designing PowerPC Amiga hardware than Phase 5?
It is correct to say that Genesi are experts.

Experience != Expertise.

ex·pert    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kspûrt)
n.
A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.

Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training.

No.  It does not.    
People are running PARTS of OS4 on their classic Amigas.  

Oh yes and you accuse me of pedantry. Please tell me how you know
more of the current status of the Beta than I do?

I repeat: OS4, though, doesn't exist AS AN OS.  
Running the new HDToolbox on your 040 doesn't count I'm afraid.

despite you trying to
shift ground on the criteria because we have already contradicted your "fact" with
the truth as is publically known.

You're scraping the barrel now Dave.
I haven't shifted ground on any criteria.  Nor have you managed to contradict any of the facts I submitted.  I repeat.  OS4 does not exist as an OS.  The EXACT same words I used in my first post.  Move the goalposts if you wish, it doesn't make anything I said less true.

Oh.  So Firewire is a disadvantage?

I repeat: subjective: benefit.

I'll take that as a "no".

Pedantry.  The fact that Amiga Inc didn't specify WHEN the product would delivered is neither here nor there.  

Not pedantry. You were claiming that your POV were facts.

No. I wrote some facts and then when you questioned them I offered proof.

They said:-
"All items will be delivered after the completion of the promotion, and initial sign up program".
The promotion ended in August last year.

Yep. They said that and it is still AFTER the completion of the promotion.

LOL

No, what I haven't done is changed your opinion of Amiga Inc. I have clearly
demonstrated that you posted your opinion as fact.

No.  You haven't.  I posted facts.  That's all.

Oh so disagree with you and exposing your trolling for a flame war for the world to see
is flaming you? Amazing.

You aren't exposing anything apart from your own inability to understand.    I'll leave you to it.... Best of luck with your "AmigaONE XE" purchase.

[Rogue]

Darth_X wrote:
 Yes, and.. source code is being compiled from  BSD and Linux for core components of AmigaOS4.

Sorry, that's untrue. The only BSD'ish thing is RoadShow, but I don't know if this was really based on any BSD source code or if Olaf wrote it from scratch.

 (There is also a rumour that code for ExecSG is compiled from openVMS too.)

[color=CC0000]ABSOULTE UTTERLY UNTRUE RUMOUR[/color]

I wonder who came up with that, although I can imagine...

Not a single line of source code in ExecSG is old, stolen, or compiled from other sources. It was all written from scratch, except for half a dozen functions that came from original Exec (ANSI C compiled to PowerPC code, before rumours of "emulated 68k ExecSG" come up again).

(if someone wants to flame me now for harassing people, go ahead)

Perhaps, not for you, but to developers coming from Windows or Mac then these are desired features.

By the way, I am coming from the Windows market. Don't you want me to be in this market?

Of course we do.

[DaveP]

@lando

Right. Whatever. If you say it enough to yourself you might convince
yourself. This is as far as Ill allow myself to be baited by a troll I should
have done what others did and just ignore you.

[DaveP]

@spidey

Thanks bud!

[amigamad]

The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis  is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .
Both machines are overpriced but os 4 has much better features being implemented than morph os neither of these machines is as good or as powerful as the pc im using now and they never will be.


im still looking forward to my a1 though .if anything these machines could be the last amiga and amiga clone and we can just let the amiga name die and move on looking at it in reality why would you buy either. :-D  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?

[MarkTime]

@DaveP,

It seems to be a common myth that you can't have any strong opinions about anything for vague potential 'legal' issues.

If Amiga, Inc. has lied, they can be called liars.  Its perfectly OK.   Even in the United States.  I've never seen anyone yet show me a case, where a person who lied, was named a liar, and then went into court and won a defamation case.

It just doesn't happen.

First, the person claiming defamation is under the burden to prove that the defamation was false.  Amiga, Inc. must prove they are not liars.  Wow, that's hard, after all they have issued many untrue statements.  Secondly, they must prove intent.  That also quite difficult.  Finally, they really must have the money to fight the case, and if they have any sense of reason at all, an expectation that the party they are suing can afford to pay a judgement.

Mostly what people do, is they just make veiled threats about legal action to intimidate and let people's paranoia take over.

Just for the record, Bill McEwen is a prevaricator.  Amiga, Inc. uses equivocal language.

In other words, liar liar pants on fire.

<---Look at me, in no legal trouble whatsoever.


I agree with most of the langauge of your post.  You don't call someone a liar for failing to meet expectations, thats true.  You call someone a liar when they don't tell the truth.

I respect the opinion of the webmaster's here...if they don't like liar posts, fine....but I think the value of a discussion board is severely limited, if people can't observe outrageous activity, like such as Amiga, Inc. has engaged in, and then not make any comment on it, because of paranoia.

[DaveP]

amigamad wrote:
The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn

AFAIK Open POP is an IBM design ( well spec ) but the Teron CX/PX
contain enough Mai design investment to be considered a "custom
design".

and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis  is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .

Being good at producing accelerator boards to work with the A1200
and A4000 does not make you expert at designing complete POP
motherboards.  This also means that just because they didn't have
a good business model with the accelerators does not mean they
don't with the Pegasos motherboards. There is a difference between
the "talent" and the "director".

The suggestion is that there is something "Amiga" specialised about
the Pegasos when in fact it is just another PPC motherboard.  The
Amiga "expertise" went into MorphOS. Any claims that somehow
the Pegasos is more "custom" because it was designed by ex PhaseV
people is stretching the point to breaking.

Both machines are overpriced but os 4 has much better features being implemented than morph os neither of these machines is as good or as powerful as the pc im using now and they never will be.

AOS4 isn't out yet, MorphOS you can't buy new because it is sold out at
the moment.

im still looking forward to my a1 though .if anything these machines could be the last amiga and amiga clone and we can just let the amiga name die and move on looking at it in reality why would you buy either. :-D  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?

I don't mind letting the Amiga name die, to be honest the baggage of
the name is not exactly a good thing. What I am interested in is what
Hyperion have come up with in AmigaOS4.

[alx]

I'm definitely an A1/OS4 person.  I think that it has more potential (partially because of the name, but not completely) and I much prefer the OS, being based on the original AmigaOS.

That said, I wouldn't want to force anyone to use any OS.  Use whichever one you feel happiest with.

[DaveP]

@Marktime

:-D

Agreed.

But the point is calling people "liars" is interpreted ( these days at least ) as meaning
that they always lied and will always lie. Lying indicates some form of intent, now I would
not think that there is anyone on this planet who is over the age of 16 who
has not deliberate told a mistruth. But there is no point branding them
liars for the rest of their lives.

When posting about "facts" people should stick to the facts and not
their opinion of the facts.

So saying on the following occassions Amiga Inc knowingly lied to
the public:
* list of occassions with hopefully some evidence

...is as close to "facts" as you can get.

If I thought that Amiga Inc. were deliberately pulling an elaborate con
trick on potential customers then I would say so ( and have come close
to this in the past ). But they have little to do with AmigaOS4 as far
as I can make out ( opinion/point of view here ) so using that as a means
to muddy the water on what was a civilised debate up to now is a bit
disingenuous.

Actually at the moment I feel a bit sad for BBRV because they are unable
to meet what is clearly a significant demand for their product at the moment. On
the brink of all out victory - they stare down the jaws of defeat - or
at least a significant setback. I would hate to get so far and to have
had victory snatched from my fingers!  Anyone who is crazy enough
to invest their financial future in this market deserves SOME respect
and that includes Hyperion, Eyetech, Genesi and ... erm ....

;-)

[Lando]

amigamad wrote:
The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis  is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .

Because they made Amiga hardware.

[Darth_X]

Hey Rogue!

Good to hear from you. Don't worry about the rumours, people say crazy things all the time. Sometimes rumours are true, sometimes they are false.

(if someone wants to flame me now for harassing people, go ahead)

Nah, its all good :-D

We are all looking forward to the public demo of AmigaOS4, is it at the end of this month?

Any ideas on when the AmigaOS4 developer network will be set up? Will this be Hosted/Supported by AmigaInc or Hyperion, or by a different group?

Even if the ACM and Audio API were targeted for AmigaDE.. they should still be ported over to the AmigaOS4. We NEED this stuff. AHI only provides a basic audio interface, we need a full functional Audio API. And I don't think porting ALSA or OpenAL over does the job.

So email Fleecy and get him to send over the code :-D

[PulsatingQuasar]

We are down to the same old useless discussion here again!

People from one side have problems with people on the other side whilst they are guilty of the exact same thing.



But here are a couple of my two cents.

OS 4 couldn't be possibly as far as MorphOS because Hyperion started work much later on OS 4 than work started on MorphOS.
So yes MorphOS is allready available! That's logical if you look at the time frame.

Hyperion also have never failed to produce.
They also do this at great personal risk so they will not let this fail. That's way the big honcho at Hyperion was so smart to setup a contract wherein all OS 4 stuff would be transferred to them if something went wrong with AInc.

[HMetal]

@Lando

This thread was going well until you started to make it about anything but the products themselves.

Go and troll somewhere else.

[PulsatingQuasar]

Because they made Amiga hardware.

AFAIK

They went bankrupt on the Mac side of their business. Two accelerators for the Mac took a long time to be cleared by Apple.
Considerable time and money went into those products and when no money was made, it was over.