MorphOS has been killed from a grassy knoll

[TheMagicM]

The divide between them is just too deep and bitter. It'll never be healed.

Again, I disagree.  Time heals all.  And why would OS4 die anyway?  Seems like out of all of this..they're still afloat and coding despite what all went on w/BBRV vs. AI.

[Karlos]

KennyR wrote:
It'll never be healed.

never say never :-)

Repeat after me: The glass is half full...

...of your favourite beverage :-)


If the users are prepared to perpetuate the antipathy of the people behind the platform(s), they fully deserve the same fate. However, if they are prepared to put aside their differences, there is no reason things can't be worked on for the better.

The community was divided originally by a few people with very large egos, but there is no reasons that in the absence of their influence that the users should continue along the same vein.

[KennyR]

Cyberus wrote:
I see where you're coming from kenny, but I think there are quite a few people who are more concerned with having a useable OS that they are comfortable with and enjoy, than getting caught up in the 'politics' of the situation.

And what would they run it on? Even buying the actual hardware means you're getting caught up in the politics! Few MOS users could afford a muA1 for OS4 anyway, far less put up with the fact that this is basically a refurbished Linux board with a dodgy northbridge and perhaps more bugs lurking in its tracks. And then there's the licence fees to KMOS, which go with the purchase. What do you actually know about KMOS? What does anyone know? Why haven't they given us our damn vouchers yet? And you NEED that A1. OS4 just won't run on anything else.

Let's not also forget the fact that many of the longer-term MOS users (including most of its senior developers) strongly dislike Hyperion for things its representatives have said. This also includes my usergroup, #AmigaZeux. That's not going to change. Money talks, but Hyperion don't have money.

Go the other way? And buy a Pegasos, and you now instead have to consider Genesi. I already know what many in the OS4 camp think of Genesi and why I doubt many would come running if OS4 came to to Pegasos. Especially with this brand religion thing going on.

Third choise, AROS: as I already said, free from expensive proprietary hardware and squabbling, untrustworthy pseudocompanies, but also free of legacy support. That already makes it useless for most people.

Having this usable OS is already more complicated than your, Wilse's, and TheMagicM's take on it. It seems you're always going to have to side with someone who might screw you.

[Cyberus]

You know, I don't overly disagree with any of those points you have made. And as I said, I'm not particularly clued up on any of the next gen Amiga solutions. However, you have based those points on 'what may be perceived as facts' - see I'm being careful ;-).

But I don't think you would disagree with me, when I say that there are large amounts of users who base their opinion on 'emotion' rather than 'fact'. Do you see what I'm getting at?

I think you probably do, but I'll clarify.
You say an A1 is based on a T**** board with a dodgy northbridge, and to be honest, it doesn't matter how true that is - you are basing your choice of OS on the fact that you don't think the A1 is suitable. That is fine, that is your choice.

However, I still maintain that there is far too much emotion involved, and not enough practicality. There are people who refuse to use one system 'because it isn't a true Amiga' - what a load of BS! You see, they are basing their choice on emotion, and not on fact, or shall we say 'perceived fact'.



jeez, I went to make a cup of tea and was thinking to myself that I may have unintentionally come across as being blue-biased in this post, and that I ought to address that...I wasn't expecting a flamewar to erupt.

Anyway, to be even handed, which was my intention all along,  its BS when people won't use OS4 because they don't like the developers or whatever. If they don't like the OS, or how its been implemented, then fine. But to disregard it as an option because of what someone said on a message board is childish, as Wilse pointed out.

[Bobsonsirjonny]

EDITED BY THEMAGICM

[KennyR]

Go interrogate Bobson, Cyberus. Go ask him if he would consider MorphOS and Pegasos if the OS4 route became impossible. Then we'll see who's bitter. You'll probably find that he's as set in his ways as I am, as are most OS4 and MOS users. See what I mean?

EDITED BY THEMAGICM

Bobsonsirjonny wrote:

Would you buy a Pegasos if OS4 was ported to it?

If so, why? If not, why?


EDITED BY THEMAGICM

[TheMagicM]

dont let this one get out of hand guys.  I'll edit your posts now.  Keep to the topic at hand.  

[Bobsonsirjonny]

Well actually we have just been discussing it on IRC - 2nd hand pegs making cheap OS4 boxes :-)

Why? Because we would be fools to look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Karlos]

I can't help thinking the bitterness on both sides is pretty sad really :-(

I make no secret of the fact that I'm happy with OS4, but I don't own an A1* nor a Pegasos. As far as I can tell, MorphOS is a reasonably seasoned product and it would be a shame to see it dissapear. For all the antagonism, I think both OS's benefitted from each others existance in that each side is determined not to be out done by the other. MorphOS has achieved a remarkable level of backwards compatibility that OS4 is yet to match, but I don't doubt that it will do at some point.

The problem is that the bitterness has led to a situation in where a lot of users can't even begin to appreciate that the "rival" system has anything to offer them and are too prejudiced to even entertain the notion.

At the end of the day, it looks like it is Genesi doing the dirty on MorphOS development here; there's litte point in dredging up the red camp/blue camp thing - you have more immediate problems to address.

-edit-

*Although I have had loan of an A1 XE for a while. The DMA issue (as far as hard disk goes, that is) that is always brought was not in evidence there. This seems to be a bit of legacy FUD :-D

[Bobsonsirjonny]

@ Karlos

Indeed - A case of the thorn and the log methinks.

I repeat - I think KennyR is a bitter fool. Mod me again by all mean, I promise I wont go running crying "censorship, censorship" ;-)

And yes Kenny that was aimed at you.

[rayt]

far less put up with the fact that this is basically a refurbished Linux board

Considering the latest announcements from genesi its not the A1 but the pegasos that looks like a "linux board" ;-)

And you NEED that A1. OS4 just won't run on anything else.

OS4 will run on Classic PPC Amigas and there are a lot of people who will use it on their A1200/4000s. And I think 99% of them would also have tried out Morphos on their Classics if it had come for free like bbrv once announced.

[KennyR]

Bobsonsirjonny wrote:
Well actually we have just been discussing it on IRC - 2nd hand pegs making cheap OS4 boxes :-)

I should think so too. It seems to be the only way you'll get altivec, ethernet and DMA.

[Argo]

Damn it, you beat me to it.

So, What about this webpage? Think there will be anything announced now on the 23rd? What do you think are the Mos Dev Teams options?
If the core Dev Team is with Genesi, could there possibly be a fork in Morphos development? Or will Morphos have to go on without some componets?
How many Morphos developers are there and how many are in contractual dispute with Genesi?
You'd think that Genesi as a company would have Employee Complain & Grievance Policy and that their Independant Contract's contracts would have a Grievance Clause. Something that would invoke some kind of mediation with a third party or with mutual leagal representation.

Any way, carry on. No hitting below the belt. We want to see good clean debate.

[Bobsonsirjonny]

tou·ché but it all works fine on my UA1c (but my box doesnt have altivec - altivec is enabled in OS4 though)

[KennyR]

EDITED BY THEMAGICM