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Author Topic: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!  (Read 7081 times)

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Offline the_leander

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #14 from previous page: September 07, 2004, 03:59:01 PM »
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Quote

adz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned its a tax payers right to moan about it, cause in the end, its their money the government is using.
oh oh your RIGHTS! Your RIGHTS!
ppl working for hospitals etc. work their asses of and you just wanna pay em less and less because it's your right.
that's how tax cuts are done.


The ground level civil servants, such as doctors, nurses etc are not the things that get people in this country so annoyed, what annoys people is that for every nurse in the NHS, there are TWO pen pushers there two, the sort of system that requires more people dealing with paperwork rather then front line services (Medicine, Firefighting, Police) is utterly reprehensible, the triangle is supposed to get smaller the further you go up it, it isn't supposed to be stood on its point!

Not one person here would advocate that these front line personel are being payed anywhere near enough, but I suspect every one of them would say that there are too many managers and such creating such a tidal wave of paperwork as to make the system utterly ineficient! ( Would also add to this that police and nurse's I've spoken to largely agree with this).

as for quangos, I am in agreement that they need getting shot of, as they do nothing except make a bad situation worse in most cases. Government should be large on the front line, tapering up to the point of power - the cabinet. Government should have the bulk of its power at a local level, not all stuffed in whitehall.
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2004, 04:09:29 PM »
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the_leander wrote:
what annoys people is that for every nurse in the NHS, there are TWO pen pushers there two, the sort of system that requires more people dealing with paperwork rather then front line services (Medicine, Firefighting, Police) is utterly reprehensible, the triangle is supposed to get smaller the further you go up it, it isn't supposed to be stood on its point!
OK, that's a popular idea, but is it actually the truth?
I know, I get a large amount of paperwork to be filled in, but how much of it is really necessary? Do I get more paperwork so they can do with less bureaucracy? How much paperwork is actually needed, also to prevent fraud as good as possible?

Maybe we just live in too big countries :-)
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Offline BADHead

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2004, 04:51:25 PM »
The hospitals are badly run,throwing money and bodys at the NHS is not working nurses are coming from india,philipines,poland,finland,australia and god knows where maybe like the railways if they invested in training and proper management and working practices they could reduce a lot of the cost.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2004, 06:35:08 PM »
It is so unfortunately, what happens is that for any given department, there is the manager on the ground, plus the heads of department, various health chiefs not attached to the hospital, whitehall propper and the health secratary him or herself issuing directives completely seperate from one another. So you got maybe... 8 or 9 managers all giving out extra paperwork (often repeating other sections recomendations) all adding up. So to deal with this, the NHS has to have that many pen pushers in the background just to deal with the system... Even the government in PMQ's (Prime ministers Questions) has had to acknoledge it (although they tried like buggery not to).

The railways is the one place that I can honestly say that a quango has sorted it all out, yes there are still delays, but not nearly as bad as it was. There are actually more trains on the rails, the costs of operating on the railways has been reduced.

Is it still a mess? Well yes it is, but, its a hell of a lot less messy then it once was, and its still getting better. Primarily because of the training and recruiting of managers that actually know what they're doing as aposed to the old boys club where it isn't what you know, just who you know (as it is in the NHS and many other areas of public service).
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Offline KennyR

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2004, 07:32:23 PM »
Speel man, calm down a bit. Socialism is a just and worthwhile system, but it does tend to create beurocracies when just too much taxpayer's money is pumped into it. Getting people to pay for a fair society is one thing, getting them to pay for a bloated, corrupt government is another. Taxes should be limited.
 

Offline cecilia

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2004, 09:29:06 PM »
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816
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Offline T_Bone

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2004, 12:14:48 AM »
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cecilia wrote:
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816


I like that one. This is one ball I think the conservatives haven't been carrying well. I wish I could be alive to see the day that this nation had no debt and could actually issue a tax cut on the basis of "We have more than we need, and have no use for this surplus."

Another large problem this country has is personal debt. We owe too much, and it's being sold to us renamed as something that sounds deceptively positive, "credit."

It's the same beast.

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Offline the_leander

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2004, 04:43:25 AM »
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T_Bone wrote:

Another large problem this country has is personal debt. We owe too much, and it's being sold to us renamed as something that sounds deceptively positive, "credit."

It's the same beast.



Britain is in much the same posision with regards personal debt. Doesn't help that in the past decade the cost of a 3 bedroom house in this country has more then tripled in real terms (folks morgaged their house for £30,000 about ten years or so ago, today it has been valued *very* conservatively at around £100,000, with a more honest value putting it closer to £120,000... Found this out as a result of my folks divorce this year heh.

In brighter news, I'm back after a good cool off period heh.

Anyone miss me?
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Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2004, 08:32:58 AM »
Of course! :-)
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2005, 10:08:33 AM »
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
Quote

cecilia wrote:
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816


I like that one. This is one ball I think the conservatives haven't been carrying well. I wish I could be alive to see the day that this nation had no debt and could actually issue a tax cut on the basis of "We have more than we need, and have no use for this surplus."

Another large problem this country has is personal debt. We owe too much, and it's being sold to us renamed as something that sounds deceptively positive, "credit."

It's the same beast.



Indeed. I saw a very simple, yet effective way of avoiding falling into this trap. Everytime you see the word 'credit' in this context, substitute it for 'debt'.

Thus you get:
Interest free debt
Debt card
Instant debt available
Attractive debt terms
Debt rating
Debt could be just a phone call away....
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Offline Dan

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2005, 10:14:05 PM »
Quote

Cyberus wrote:
Thus you get:
Instant debt available
Debt could be just a phone call away....


That doesn´t sound like a good deal. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
I don´t understand creditcard users, why isn´t a debitcard enough? With a debitcard the worst that can happen is that you have to live on pasta an ketchup for the rest of the month.
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Offline odin

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Re: When I die, the Post Mortem-report will say "Death caused by taxes"!
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2005, 11:29:16 PM »
OI! Stop scaring me! I thought this was a new thread until I saw KennyR's post and though 'huh?'. You evil threadnecromongers! :-P.

Anyway, I own a creditcard for internet and international purchases. The 'credit' part is a drawback as far as I'm concerned.