Classic Amiga users, have you thought about next-gen?

[Brian Hoskins]

I think everyone who currently owns a classic Amiga and is serious about sticking with their Amiga for the future, has at least considered the next generation machines.
The people generally fall into the following bands:

1) Those who like the idea of Next Generation but can't afford it, or are unwilling to pay the current prices.

2) Those who could afford it, but are waiting for some clear water with regard to the future of the chosen platform (A1 or Peg) before shelling out tons of cash

3) Those who are completely against the current Next Generation machines altogether

4) Those who have already bought a Next Generation machine.

Personally I wouldn't consider the Pegasos to be a next generation Amiga at all due to the fact that it cannot run the next generation Amiga Operating System and is promoted as a "new platform" by it's manufacturers.  I've nothing against Pegasos/MOS users whatsoever and would not wish to create argument with them, but that's my personal stand on the next generation machines.

With regard to the AmigaOne, whether you believe it's good value for money or not depends on which way you look at it.  In one sense, you could quite rightly argue that the AmigaOne is extremely overpriced and does not compare favourably with prices for similarly spec'd motherboards on other platforms (such as the PC).  To look at it in a slightly different light, if you consider the prices we were all paying for brand new BPPC and CSPPC boards back in... what was it, 1997? Then you may quite rightly conclude that the AmigaOne isn't actually all that expensive at all, when compared to the price of a previous PPC product which was afterall, only an accelerator board.  Infact, the AmigaOne motherboard which is a fully-fledged computer platform in it's own right, is cheaper than the top of the range BPPC board which was only an accelerator for an existing classic amiga - and that's comparing 1997 prices with 2004 prices, in reality if you consider inflation as well then the BPPC boads were even more expensive in comparison with the modern A1 board.

My personal view is that the AmigaOne IS overpriced, and that it does need to come down in price before it will be considered good value for money.  Either that or the specs needs to drastically improve in order to make the price more appealing.  I would imagine even those who have bought an AmigaOne would admit that it's very expensive - even if they are actually happy with their purchase.
That said, I can completely understand the reasons why an AmigaOne is overpriced (economies of scale) and since I have already decided that I WILL be sticking with the Amiga for the forseeable future, it follows that I will eventually look to purchase a Next Generation machine.  I'd probably say that I fall into band 2, in that I am interested in a next generation machine but am waiting for some clear water regarding the future of the AmigaOne, the future of OS4 and the future of the new parent company, KMOS.

I would like to see new models of the AmigaOne with much improved specs and a similar (if not cheaper) price tag.  That would probably convince me enough to take the plunge sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, my PPC based A1200 is king ;-)

Brian

[Ni72ous]

I dont have any working amigas anymore but if i were to go for  a nextgen machine, i would go for the A1, i would not get a Peg as Genesi did'nt even answer emails i sent to them, plus the fact that the A1 is the only nextgen with a true AOS and not a clone of AOS, dont get me wrong i am not saying the Peg is crap, i have seen many screenies of MorphOS and it looks very good indeed and i think the Peg board has some better features than the A1, but for the time being i will just keep an eye on AROS and keep using WinUAE.

[Holley]

Eyetech have their 'industrial' market, BPlan/Genesi have the PPC Linux market.  OS4 & Morphos are spinoffs really.

From what I've read both are/will be equally capable of replacing a classic system (at higher speed, with more memory ;-)), which is what I'm looking for personally.

As for which one I fancy getting ... I honestly can't decide, though at the mo Pegasos is a little ahead because of the price, and the extra clock speed of their G4 lends itsself to running UAE a bit better than the uA1 (and the XC seems to still be a good way off).

As for weather they're real Amigas, no, of course not, they're a replacement for them.  I suspect those that complain about the lack of custom chips only play old games on their Classics anyway.

[HotRod]

I thought that I could add my story here if it's worth anything to anyone.

I've got an A4000 that I've put in a Powertower, I've bought a CSPPC, a CyberVision, later on the Mediator, a Voodoo 3, a Voodoo 4, a SB 128, a FastATA etc.

Even though it was working OK it was getting old and I needed to replace it. I have replaced the clockbattery as well.

So I bought the A1, used Linux for allmost a year (I switched on the A4000 every now and then since I missed AOS ;-)) and it was good experience. I've also learned what's good and what's bad about the A1 motherboard.

So has it been worth the money? Yes, it sure has. I bought a complete system with 256Mb RAM, without any expansioncards at all to keep the cost down and no monitor, I used the parts from my A4000 instead. So the price-tag was about the same as for a new PC.

So the PC-hardware are faster? Well I've used enough of modern PC's with Windows to tell you that AOS 4 Pre are at least as fast as Windows is on such a machine (fast ATA133 HD, 512Mb RAM etc). And since I've seen the movie wich shows AOS 4 that the beta-testers got I can say that it's very, very fast.

So I don't think that the pricetag is so terrible after all. The CV64/3D that I bought was expensive, so was the CSPPC, the CyberVision, the Power Tower, the Mediator.

I want to continue to use AOS wich I've got used to rather than switching to another system and stay with AOS 3.9. That isn't the future of the Amiga, that's the death of Amiga.

I can also say regarding "new hardware not being Amiga" that it feals exactly the same, that is if you got a gfx-card in your Amiga. Only difference is that it's much nicer with its new look and features (and there will be more features), there's better speed (and it will be MUCH better soon).

So I can't understand why someone who likes Amiga choose to not use it. If it's a matter of money, then I can but except for that..... No. Amiga is about fun IMHO and I think that's the reason for why people are using it, but really, isn't AOS 3.9 fealing a bit old? Isn't it nice to have a modern version of it running of fresh hardware?

Anyway there's time left before the final version is out and new hardware will apear. The A1 Micro will be released at october 1 and it'll have a lower price than the A1. A1 XC is also planned.

And then offcourse you got Pegasos/MOS.

Why not wait and see till the final version of AOS 4 is out? There'll be new software available, maybe a new version of the A1 and so on.

[guest1955]

I was waiting in anticipation for Eyetech to release their price list for the uA1; but I have got to admit that I don't find it very impressive. All I want to do is to buy a machine which I know will have the majority of support from the Amiga Community. I would buy a Peg if I knew for sure that was the case, but I don't see many developers for the system. If only both the camps would reveal the quantity of each boards sold, then I could make a more informed decision (And go with the sheep, so the speak)

[Holley]

Oh yeah, speed of emulation - RTG friendly 68k apps and games should work fine without needing UAE.

A Pentium 200 will emulate an A500 fine, so even the lowliest next-gen machine (the now no longer sold Peg1/600) should be fine for old games, which is almost all UAE is needed for on these platforms.

Saying a PC would be faster is obvious, but on a PC you're wanting to run OS3.9 and get some use out of Workbench, too - this isn't a need under OS4/MOS 'cause you're already doing that ;-)

[X-ray]

@ Holley

I'm not so much concerned with the new Amigas not having the old custom chips: I am concerned that the new Amigas have no new custom chips. That's what would make me sit up and say "Gee, the new Amiga can do X,Y and Z and my PC can't."
Then I might actually want a new Amiga.

[TheMagicM]

it wouldnt be the custom chips you're looking for.. its the new software that utilizes the new system.  There is no *new* powerful software..

[PMC]

Being a Mediator owner I'd held out hope of Elbox actually releasing the mythical SharkPPC but have decided to jump ship and my main home machine is a PC running UAE.

I still **may** yet go down the route of either an AOne or Pegasos, as I do actually prefer Amiga for general use.  That we can run some serious eye candy OSs which fundamentally date back to 1992 on our 25Mhz '040s is nothing short of miraculous.  One thing is clear though, the classic line cannot go on forever and it's moment has very much passed.

I'm hoping the next generation of machines is taken a little more seriously then "you own a what?".

One thing though.  The whole Peg vs AOne thing is total BS.  We've two machines that are conceptually and physically VERY close to one another in terms of spec, plus the OSs are similar in so many repects.  Our community is far too small to support both platforms so both camps need to at least start working together.  The flaming seems to have died down of late so maybe people are figuring it out for themselves?

[Robert17]

Amiga isn't just about the name anymore, it's about the software and the people (community)  Granted there's not much scope for new users... but it terms of speed surely the A1/Peg is better value for money than buying a clapped out old BPPC or CSPPC, even if the new machines are a little less compatible.

Robert

[rayt]

Nearly one year ago I decidet to build a ppc amiga4000 to run Os4 after having used an A1200 for half of my lifetime. So I got myself a cheap A4000, a cyberstormPPC from ebay, and a Mediator, and a huge old(but cheap) fixed frequency 19" monitor.. My other option at that time was to sell my A1200 system and spend all of my money for an A1G3SE (as the XE was too expensive)..
But I decided to get an A4000PPC instead, mostly because Os4 was far away at that time and I would have spent all my money on a linux system (and I had already a linux system) but also because when I was a child and had a 500/1200, I always imagined how great the A4000 must be and I always wanted one..
At that time (last year) I didn't know that Os4 will be the last release for classic ppc though. So I was disappointed as hyperion said this, but later the microA1 was announced, and I though about buying one in addition to my 4000.. But I hoped it would cost something like 300-400Euros.. But as its more expesive its hard to find a reason to buy it..
I think OS4 will also be fast on a Cyberstorm(plus I can use all amiga games/apps), and for things like watching divx/dvds or playing games I can use my pc or ps2..

[Holley]

@X - I guess we're looking from opposite ends of the same stick - I'm considering a replacement for a current well spec'd Classic (though without '060 or PPC), and you're looking for a new computer revolution type machine that brings back the way Classics could be used back in the day.

[x56h34]

I'd like SharkPPC over any other solutions. :-)
I'm not arguing over which is better, but I simply want to soup up my classic Amiga(s). For me, it's like this. Serious stuff, PC. Hobby, Amiga. :-)

[X-ray]

@ Toecutter

Yep, I didn't realise that the Shark + is going to have an AGP slot. You could say that I am more than mildly interested in that now...

BIG question...will they be made and will they run OS4 like an A1?

[x56h34]

X-ray wrote:
BIG question...will they be made and will they run OS4 like an A1?

That's the big question mark.

Elbox says yes, but Hyperion (the developers of OS4.0) say that they haven't received anything from Elbox yet, so that they could even remotely start supporting the SharkPPC in OS4.0.

So, it's either Elbox waiting and making sure that OS4.0 would come out and become successfull enough, before they do anything, like spending huge amounts of money on SharkPPC development/advertising/etc., or it's simply vaporware. :-)

[Doppie1200]

To reply the message that started this thread;

I'm a classic amiga user. I am because it is fun to tinker with the machines. I do not think it is competative or better than any modern platform it might be comparable with. I do think it is a gem for it's time. And I will never concider A1 or Pegasus because I feel that those are too far from the classic amiga.

I don't want to insult any of you but that is just my feeling. A true (classic) amiga is a system based around a 68k cpu and a custom chipset. The system is/was intended for the masses. Not any ppc based platform using COTS components with the amiga name slapped on it whishing to be for the masses.

I really hope for the sake of those working on it you will gain ground. But I won't be any help due to lack of interest.

So short answer is; I will not consider it.

Hope this is not sounding like a post trying to plug pegasus or A1 (whatever that means). If it is I apologize and should not have posted it.