Voodoo 3 3000 -vs- Voodoo 4 4500, strange

[redrumloa]

Especially in cases like this, where the 3D power is so woefully behind modern systems.

 I emplore you to fly to Florida and play Quake II on my system and say it's not playable, or you'd be at a serious handicap against a PC. That's not the point though.

I really think you are missing the point here. Most people using classic Amigas aren't trying to beat modern PCs speed in 3D games. Why shouldn't a classic Amiga user get the most out of his box though? If it was all about benchmarks between PCs and Amigas, there wouldn't be a single classic user left in the world. Why do people restore classic/antique cars? Why do people customize classic/antique cars? They aren't as fast as modern cars, get much worse gas mileage, handles far worse and often it costs alot more to restore an old classic then it is to buy a new production car.

3D is done because it can be done, and it does give the possibilty to play some modernish games. With SDL and hopefully other ports, the possibilities grow even larger. I am looking forward to playing some original Duke 3D on this system, and I hope Hyperion realses some more ports in the future when OS4 is out. I will keep tweaking my system to ring out every ounce of performance possible:-)

[Ilwrath]

I really think you are missing the point here.

Well, I think we're kind of missing each other's points.  Mine is more like this:  "Why would an Amiga user want to play 5-7 year old FPS games (very badly dated, and look terrible compared to modern offerings) at 5-7 year old speeds (33FPS doesn't fit my definition of smooth, and 640x480 doesn't fit my definition of high resolution.)"  I didn't care THAT much for Quake II when it was new.  I surely have no nostalgia for it when I can play another game that has exactly the same gameplay and looks so much better...

A PC that could perform 3D better than the top Amiga can be found in your local dumpster.  Literally, I wasn't kidding when I said
local charaties won't even take them!

Why torture yourself and your miggy trying to do something that it fails at so miserably?

Why do people restore classic/antique cars? Why do people customize classic/antique cars? They aren't as fast as modern cars, get much worse gas mileage, handles far worse and often it costs alot more to restore an old classic then it is to buy a new production car.

I think you're on the same course as me, here, but came to a totally different conclusion.  It's a good bet that the person who restores a classic car also has a "daily driver."  The car that takes all the abuse of daily wear and tear of city driving, huge potholes, winter salt, etc.  You don't see them trolling for a parking spot at the local mall with their classic.  IF they drive the classic somewhere, it's a safe bet it'll be parked safely away from stray shopping carts, careless kids, etc...  

I see 3D performance as a relatively mundane task.  And if I want to play a 3D game, why torture the Amiga over it, when I have a tremendously more capable PC (that I really don't care much about) sitting here begging for some polygons?

It's like taking your classic restored car up to Home Depot to pick up a load of plywood and lumber.  You just don't do it.

[redrumloa]

@Ilwrath

We will have to agree to disagree. IMO it gets to a point with FPS on a first person shooter where it's wildly overkill. Do you need 150FPS + just to make a game playable? I think not, it's simply bragging rights.

Let me ask you this, if you feel Amigas should be burried along with PCs of that era, why are you here? Classic Amiga hardware is obviously dated if you want to put it in a head-to-head comparison with modern PCs. The same can be said for the OS and all available software.

[Ilwrath]

Do you need 150FPS + just to make a game playable? I think not, it's simply bragging rights.

No... But it's hard to argue that 50fps isn't an advantage over 30 (especially when that 30 can drop to 20 or less in high polygon situations).  And is all but impossible to argue that 1600x1200 isn't an advantage over 640x480.  Regardless of games you play.  Personally, (if you couldn't tell from my avatar) I've been into Papyrus NASCAR 2003 for about a year now.  The extra resolution and draw distance are CRITICAL for a game like that.  When you're approaching trouble at 180MPH you've only got a split second to either save your ride, or have an early trip to the pits.  The extra resolution can help you identify that trouble sooner.  I'm sure it's the same for people into first-person shooters, or whatever.  (The sooner you can identify the enemy, the sooner you can neutralize them.)  The extra resolution and draw distance is much more important than any frames over 50.  I can't imagine anyone who would willingly go backwards to having something in the power-class of an old Voodoo 3 or RIVA TNT.  

Let me ask you this, if you feel Amigas should be burried along with PCs of that era, why are you here?

Like the classic cars, the Amiga has plenty of character and nostalgia.  It's the retro computer champ.  It is really a historic masterpiece.  It was multimedia before the word was invented.  Easily 10 years or more ahead of its time.  I'm much more into the preservation of Amiga than trying to make it into a useful every-day platform, anymore.  The Prometheus is an amazing product, built after a long line of previous amazing products for Amiga.  (Like the Golden Gate that could use [then common] ISA cards native on Amiga.)  Here is a simple product that allows the use of common PCI video cards and allows the fastest high-color Workbench ever on Amiga (fastest Windowed environment on any platform, ever?  Maybe -- not sure how to prove that, though), full RTG support, etc, and it all integrates nicely with the original Amiga.  

My own advice would be to let the Prometheus stand on those merits, rather than trying to play up 3D figures that are still very sub-par, any way you look at them.

[zipper]

> My own advice would be to let the Prometheus stand on those merits, rather than trying to play up 3D figures that are still very sub-par, any way you look at them.

I don't complain if I get some extra fps via my Prometheus. If I want those 150-300 fps, I'll go shopping for some decent hw - and that moment is getting close with digital cameras and broadband. But that's not fun like tinkering with ancient hw - like my A500T/060@57 MHz ;-)