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AuthorTopic: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox  (Read 1987 times)

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Offline Krusher

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2004, 01:03:45 AM »
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by Merc on 2004/7/6 1:58:49

...

Yeah, too bad that seems to be impossible ...


Actually, it's quite possible.
You can even be adventureous and erase mshtml.dll :-D (NOT recommended though, you get in heaps of trouble with software thinking that file is still there :-o  )

 

Offline mikeymike

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2004, 01:46:11 AM »
Quote

BoingBoss wrote:
Hi mikeymike,

Do you think that Firefox will install over IE or is IE embedded in Windows and can not be removed?


Don't bother trying to uninstall IE.

Firefox will co-exist fine with IE with either as the default browser.

Offline BIG-IRON

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2004, 02:34:45 AM »
Im using firefox in XP right now it works great! and ie doesnt need to be removed.
BIG IRON (Or \\"heavy metal [Cambridge]) Large, expensive,ultra-fast computers. Used generally of number crunching supercomputers such as Crays, but can include more conventional big commercial IBMish mainframes.
 

Offline weirdami

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2004, 03:28:40 AM »
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Don't bother trying to uninstall IE.


Besides, windows update doesn't work without IE.
----
Binding Polymer: Keeping you together since 1892.
 

Offline Kent

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2004, 03:59:54 AM »
Quote
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
I had to install IE6 because I have to use the faculty's website, wich is mainly based on 'blackboard', and wich can only be used with IE6.


I use Opera with Blackboard all the time.  If you get the "Token Null" error, just log in again and viola.  I upload all my skewl things without any problems.

:pint:
I love the modern age world of this middle age crises America... all these SUVs driving around like there\\\'s gas to spare and then some.

http://www.RequestFocus.com

W. Kent Seaton ~ RequestFocus.com
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2004, 04:41:07 AM »
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Do you think that Firefox will install over IE or is IE embedded in Windows and can not be removed?

Explorer and Internet Explorer share many DLLs, but the browser is still a seperate app from the OS.  Anything can replace it without "overwriting" anything.

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Mozilla Firefox has a long way to go yet.

Yeah, I get pissed when people say FireFox beats the pants off IE.  IE's no prize, but FireFox is too damn buggy and has too many compliance issues to be crowned king just yet.  I also really hate the download manager, and the profiles are very, very easy to corrupt, making it difficult to re-install the browser.  Downgrading from 0.9 to 0.8 was a nightmare because un-installing 0.8 didn't clear out the profiles, and, I suppose, 0.9 didn't import them properly.  Took me a couple hours to get the system cleaned up and 0.8 installed again.  Grrr...

In a couple years it should be much better.  It'll be interesting to see what IE7 looks like, if Microsloth ever gets off their butts and replaces IE6.  How long has that browser been out?!

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I say that because I can't remove the internet explorer (6) icon from my Windows desktop and move it to my 'programs' folder on my desktop as I do with all my programs

If you can't remove it by dragging it to the trash, you can probably use TweakUI.  No Windows user should be without that utility.

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Or be all cool and find yourself a tool to permanently erase IE6

Bad idea.  It's always dangerous to use 3rd party tools to hack your OS.

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Besides, windows update doesn't work without IE.

I thought there was a way around that.  Microsoft is, finally, offering updates and patches for download, rather than forcing you to use install-on-demand.
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2004, 04:41:32 AM »
Why is it every time I post it goes on a new page?  :-)
 

Offline DonnyEMU

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2004, 05:27:17 AM »
I really think you guys have it wrong.. I have spent time in Redmond, and I found no green-eyed monsters there. Well maybe in snoqualmie falls (but that's next door)..

I think Microsoft likes to see good software just the same as the next person. Granted they like it even better if it's their own, but they see good software as a challenge to improve theirs.

Microsoft has been offering free security summits and seminars in all major US cities and markets and they have shown a major interest lately in improving what they have.

I would remind everyone who use an IE browser, if you go to the HELP menu and about Internet Explorer, you will find it's based on NCSA Mosaic, so whether you think people should own software copyright and make money off of it or not. We are talking about IE and Netscape which are both step children of NCSA Mosaic.. I bet even IBrowse has something to do with that lineage.

I am writing this on IE 6 right now using a pre-release of Windows XP service pack 2 which really speaks to Microsoft's addressing security concerns. It now has a pop up blocker built-in like netscape/mozilla. Whether you like it or not microsoft's IE eclipsed the original netscape browser with DHTML features and active x controls. The same legacy technology that people have been using to exploit security issues. If you don't use Active X and set your security levels properly IE can be quite a good browser to work from..

Netscape and Mozilla have always suffered from the same Document Object Model deficiencies and fell behind supporting W3C standards. It's a great browser just the same. However, having said that.. Aren't there other browsers out there that might be better.. Like Konqueror and their K-HTML support.. I am just saying that Microsoft doesn't really sell IE and neither did netscape..

Why are we all complaining about a product that has the same roots and at one time maybe the same codebase..
This accounts to just more Microsoft bashing. Freedom of choice is an important thing. It's even more important to see technology improvements in basic browser technology (and I don't mean XML)..

The fact is neither browser totally does what everyone wants.. Maybe we should still be on a quest for a better browser rather than declare one the "winner".. I see no one stepping up and saying apple's "Safari" browser is a better tool for example..

If you have ever written HTML or server side language code you know what a hassle it is to support different browsers with different DOMs.. I think Microsoft by promoting firefox is showing a willingness to embrace other software and to acknowledge good software no matter who it comes fom.

For those wishing to deinstall IE: It's not really an application that's why it's difficult to de-install. Even IE 4 featured a total revamped desktop replacement for windows explorer that upgraded the OS as well as installed the browser. Originally IE was supposed to be a browser and part of the desktop (like windows explorer). They built protocols for http ftp etc into the os.. If you de-install IE you could de-install these protocols and other apps that's aren't a web browser couldn't use their embedded functionality..

You can make Netscape your default browser, but it's protocols are hardly integrated into the OS.. Isn't it smart to support these kinda protocols directly in the OS.. I for instance know that a certain web browser installs into the AmigaOS an HTTP protocol handler. That's doing the same thing as what IE is..

On Windows 95 and beyond, any open window can turn into any application (whether it be a windows explorer app or an Internet explorer app. by typing a path in the address bar area). In other words Http:// or C:\ .. So stop thinking of it as a stand alone application, it's just a window with access to various protocols..

 It offers embedding in too apps.. It's a good and useful feature that you can easily turn off.. And people who haven't figured out how to or feel they need to "de-install" really don't understand underlying what's there beyond an icon..

All I see this is, as more anti-microsoft bias. I use Firefox all the time and it's a great piece of software. It's not integrated but it works well enough it doesn't need to.. KDE on linux takes the same approach(as IE) with their desktop and konquerer  on linux.. It's a good idea.. Get over it folks..
======================================
Don Burnett Developer
http://blog.donburnett.com
don@donburnett.com
======================================
 

Offline jeffimix

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2004, 08:45:52 AM »
I will point out Mozilla is called Mozilla for a Reason.


Mosaic Communications anyone?
\\"The only benchmarks that matter is my impression of the system while using the apps I use. Everything else is opinion.\\" - FooGoo
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2004, 09:18:56 AM »
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The fact is neither browser totally does what everyone wants.. Maybe we should still be on a quest for a better browser rather than declare one the "winner".. I see no one stepping up and saying apple's "Safari" browser is a better tool for example..

Yeah, and that goes for all software.  If you're the best of the worst, that doesn't say much.  :-)

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If you have ever written HTML or server side language code you know what a hassle it is to support different browsers with different DOMs.. I think Microsoft by promoting firefox is showing a willingness to embrace other software and to acknowledge good software no matter who it comes fom.

It'd be nice if the existing W3C standards made it easier to test for specific DOM features.  The whole point of markup is to use recognized tags and ignore undefined tags.  But, when browsers work differently, everyone complains about standards compliance.  If you really want to use the DOM, you HAVE to know certain specifics about what the client machine supports, by doing things like "if( theFeature )...".  Otherwise, just use raw markup.

Personally, I only use the DOM to size the browser window to frame an image.  Things like innerHTML are very, very evil.

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KDE on linux takes the same approach(as IE) with their desktop and konquerer on linux.. It's a good idea.. Get over it folks..

Everyone bashes Windows, but every day Linux distros are getting closer to the way Microsoft does things.
 

Offline mikeymike

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2004, 09:26:27 AM »
Firefox?  Compliance issues?  Erm, no.

As for stability, since Firebird 0.7 I have had about 3 app crashes in total that were caused by general browsing.  Add another 6 for testing other sites that other people say crash the browser.

Firefox does have bugs in of course, though I wouldn't go as far as to say 'buggy' or I wouldn't use it, because I use apps that *work* and don't have patience for ones that don't just *work*.  I have one bug report open for a bizarre/obscure page rendering issue and that's it.  Compare that in the past to on average I used to have about 6 Mozilla bug reports open simultaneously, which is now down to 0.  Mozilla is more 'feature stable' than Firefox, and I would prefer Firefox to be 'feature stable' (as in, I don't want new bells and whistles, I want things like its memory usage improved!), but Firefox has features over Mozilla, and I like Thunderbird ten times more than Moz Mail.

Offline sir_inferno

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2004, 10:20:04 AM »
Quote

mikeymike wrote:
Quote

BoingBoss wrote:
Hi mikeymike,

Do you think that Firefox will install over IE or is IE embedded in Windows and can not be removed?


Don't bother trying to uninstall IE.


a bit of deleting here and there

a bit of corrupting everywhere

a bit of regedit is what i need...


etc etc  :-D
 

Offline smithy

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2004, 10:24:54 AM »
Quote

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103152/

I don't see any flying pigs around either!


Ahhh... editorial independence... interesting that they have it at Microsoft.  It's a shame the same thing can't be said of the supposedly "free" Mozilla Project's MozillaZine.  Did it reccomend using IE (or any other browser) in the last 5 years when Mozilla was too unstable to use for more than 5 minutes without a crash?  :lol:
 

Offline whabang

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2004, 10:26:01 AM »
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Yeah, I get pissed when people say FireFox beats the pants off IE. IE's no prize, but FireFox is too damn buggy and has too many compliance issues to be crowned king just yet. I also really hate the download manager, and the profiles are very, very easy to corrupt, making it difficult to re-install the browser. Downgrading from 0.9 to 0.8 was a nightmare because un-installing 0.8 didn't clear out the profiles, and, I suppose, 0.9 didn't import them properly. Took me a couple hours to get the system cleaned up and 0.8 installed again. Grrr...

Eh?

Firefox 0.9 had a few annoying crashes, 0.8 and 0.9.1 hasn't been anything else than rock-solid.
Mozilla complies to most standards, generally much better than IE.

0.8 and 0.9 uses different locations for profiles, and it was a little disturbing that one couldn't import 0.8-profiles automatically.
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline Vincent

Re: "shocked and awed"!: MSN recommends Firefox
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2004, 12:19:24 PM »
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
(I had to install IE6 because I have to use the faculty's website, wich is mainly based on 'blackboard', and wich can only be used with IE6)

Opera 7.51 can handle blackboard pages without a hitch, the same for csa's (the self-test thingumies).  Sioux needs to use them for her uni work and was very happy when she found out Opera can now do both no probs at all :-D
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Speelgoedmannetje reccomends Opera as webbrowser :-)
:-D
Xbox360
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