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Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 08, 2013, 07:42:28 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;737226
WTF?!?  Something is very wrong.
I have extracted the audio files on my 32MB Amiga many many times and never got an out of memory error.

So something in your system is/was using a huge giant hunk of ram... or.. your memory list was super super fragged out and there were no hunks large enuff to hold the audio file.  The very largest file is around 1.2MB I think.  So if ur memory got all fragged out and there was not a single 1.2MB hunk anywhere in memory then u could get an out of memory error.

Unless I have something jacked that at start up (I have just OS3.9  with BB3 with ClassicWB slapped on top, along with the mediator drivers  and the Cyberstorm drivers off of Aminet), then I shouldn't have had any fragmented memory.  Started the extraction off of a cold boot.

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Maybe you have many hard drive partitions and giant AddBuffers for each partition?
I have three partitions, System is on FFS, and Work and Games are both on SFS.

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The audio files decrunch into the RAM disk so maybe you are using some buggy hackpatched RamDisk.device?

This sounds most likely.  It's whatever BB3 is using.

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The Game will suxx if half the audio files never unpacked!!!

You might miss the funny speech samples, or some kewl muzax, or the names of all the units.

Did it speak the name of the monster when u clicked on it?
(only during your Movement Phase)

Did it say something like "Select your spell" once you passed all the setupscreens and got the actual game started?
I think most of the sounds were there, and they were AWESOME!!  Music was seriously epic too!  

I'm giving it another play right now, hopefully my Amiga doesn't overheat again...

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Exactly!!!!!!  Its 8-player MegaArchonOfDeathOnSteroidsEnhancedProfessional++ :)

I coded in the Archonian PowerPoints option just for you.

I liked Archon on the C64, but I didn't like the Amiga version.  EA games were really primitive in 1985-1986.

I'd have to agree with this!  Though instead of the C64, I played the Atari 8-bit version.  Loved it.  Though I distinctly recall punching the crap out of my younger brother when he somehow managed to slay my dragon with a knight...  There are two of my favorite all time EA games from this time;  Racing Destruction Set and Mail Order Monsters.  I'd like them to remake them, but they'd just ruin them like they did Syndicate.  Though... if you have ideas for a Total Chaos 2... Mail Order Monsters was, to me, a direct descendant of Archon.  After all, it was Archon with upgradeable beasts.

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Maybe... but it still has to copy all the gfx data over at 8MB/second. (or whatever speed u currently get using bustest.)

640x480x256 colors = 307200 bytes
8MB/307200 = 26  but the CPU can sit there copying 26fps, it also has to generate the frames in the first place so you couldn't realistically get more than 13fps if u were really REALLY lucky.

You need to play it in 320x256.

Or wait for a new superAmiga to come out, like the Replay or Tina or Natami or whatever...

Just because Total Chaos AGA runs in 640x512 doesn't mean u can just go round running everything at that resolution.  I had to use some really hardcore darque majique and break a few laws of physics to achieve that. :)
I did a bustest after getting the Cyberstorm in there.  It scored around 30MB/s!  I'll run it again after my current game of Total Chaos and post the exact numbers.

slaapliedje

Edit: Since when does using q between brackets and /q not work for quotes?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 07:45:11 PM by slaapliedje »
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Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2013, 08:02:46 PM »
That was a quick game.  The enemy summoned a wraith, though I'm pretty sure he said rape, because that's what just happened to me!  

Ill get the hang of this eventually...

slaapliedje
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Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2013, 08:17:27 PM »
Cyberstorm's memory is;
readw     32.0 * 10^6 bytes/s
readl       38.4
readm      38.8
writew     25.5
writel      25.5
writem    25.5

Interesting, the showconfig command shows that the Zorram and the 16mb on the motherboard are using the same memory addresses.

16.0 meg is addressed at $7000000-$7FFFFFF and the 128 meg is addressed at $7000000-$77FFFFF.  

Isn't this a terribly bad thing?  Though bustest does show that block of memory at 14.7, 16.0, 15.8, 9.4, 9.4, 9.4.

slaapliedje
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2013, 01:31:05 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;737240
Unless I have something jacked that at start up (I have just OS3.9  with BB3 with ClassicWB slapped on top, along with the mediator drivers  and the Cyberstorm drivers off of Aminet), then I shouldn't have had any fragmented memory.  Started the extraction off of a cold boot.

 I have three partitions, System is on FFS, and Work and Games are both on SFS.

Why is it that every time something bizzarre happens it always happens to someone using SFS?  Then I always hafta say "Well SFS is on my list of prime suspects because I never use it.  I use FFS and am about to switch to PFS3 because PFS3 has always been the fastest and its been free and opensource for a long time now.  Also all the guys in Team Chaos switched to PFS3 around 10 years ago.  They say it is faster and more reliable and burns less cpu cycles than SFS."

Half the time when something bizarre happens it eventually gets traced to something completely unrelated to SFS.  But the other half the time, the mystery never gets solved.  (Who wants to solve boring mysteries when u can be smashing monsters? :D )

There are other guys who play Total Chaos AGA on their ClassicWB/060 Classic Amigas and they swear ClassicWB works 100% perfectly.  This is a major accomplishment as Total Chaos AGA bangs the AmigaOS hard and will detect bugs in many hacks.

Maybe your problem was caused by the way you unlha'ed the game?
lha x #?.lha is what I use from CLI.  Lha does thrash the memory list when dealing with giant archives like this but not enuff thrashing to cause a failure, I would think.  So I will guess that you used one of those buggy, sloppy, extrasuperduper memory thrashing GUI frontends for LHA and that is what caused the problem.

I bet if u repeat the test and then type "frags" from cli u will see 5000 memory frags.

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I'd have to agree with this!  Though instead of the C64, I played the Atari 8-bit version.  Loved it.  Though I distinctly recall punching the crap out of my younger brother when he somehow managed to slay my dragon with a knight...  There are two of my favorite all time EA games from this time;  Racing Destruction Set and Mail Order Monsters.  I'd like them to remake them, but they'd just ruin them like they did Syndicate.  Though... if you have ideas for a Total Chaos 2...

Ur playing Total Chaos 7 right now (assuming u downloaded the right one).   Total Chaos 2 was back in A500 days 320x256.  With 32 or 64 colors.  Came on 1 or 2 floppy disks.  It used the AmigaVoice (narrator.library) to speak the names of the monsters.  Those were the days :knuddel:


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Mail Order Monsters was, to me, a direct descendant of Archon.  After all, it was Archon with upgradeable beasts.

Darnit!  I never played Mail Order Monsters!  We had the game.  I remember seeing the disk all the time.  One of my brother's had it.  And I remember it loading from disk for multiple eternities.  But I can't remember anything about the gameplay...  I missed a classic? :(

So u r saying you could move your monsters around on a board and fight them against each other in Mail Order Monsters???  How could I not have known that?!?!?!

I clearly remember Racing Destruction Set.  We played that a lot.  I clearly remember Archon and M.U.L.E. and Space Taxi and Jumpman and Frogger and Wizard and Rally Speedway and Le Mans and Radar RatRace and Sword of Fargoal and Temple of Apshai and Zork and Farmer's Daughter and Battle Thru Time and all those great old C64 gamez.


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I did a bustest after getting the Cyberstorm in there.  It scored around 30MB/s!  I'll run it again after my current game of Total Chaos and post the exact numbers.

That's kewl and all, because Total Chaos AGA sucks up every byte of that bandwidth to make the framerate faster... but when I was talking about the bandwidth limiting the framerate in your 3D FPS gamez I meant the bandwidth from your 060 cpu across your Mediator Bus into ur Radeon Gfx card.  That should be something like 9.1 MB/sec  Though it might still be stuck at 8MB/sec.  I would be very interested to know the result.

The ramchips in the radeon give crappy bandwidth during random access.  They only give their stellar bandwidth when accessing memory locations in sequential order.  I am afraid that going across the mediator always counts as "random access" because it can't do the weird bursts that Radeon Ram requires for highspeed bandwidth.


Quote

Edit: Since when does using q between brackets and /q not work for quotes?

I don't think that has ever worked on this forum.   You hafta write out the word quote.  You must've been thinking of some other forum.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2013, 01:44:23 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;737245
Cyberstorm's memory is;
readw     32.0 * 10^6 bytes/s
readl       38.4

I wrote TotalChaosAGA to be super efficient and almost always use move.l instead of moving words or bytes.  That way I scam a bunch of extra bandwidth for free. :)


Quote

Interesting, the showconfig command shows that the Zorram and the 16mb on the motherboard are using the same memory addresses.

That is scary  :huh:


Quote

16.0 meg is addressed at $7000000-$7FFFFFF

Sounds plausible.


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 and the 128 meg is addressed at $7000000-$77FFFFF.  

Either u wrote the number wrong or something is terribly screwed up.  That only works out to 8MB of RAM.  The other 120MB just vanished. :confused:

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Isn't this a terribly bad thing?  Though bustest does show that block of memory at 14.7, 16.0, 15.8, 9.4, 9.4, 9.4.

Those speeds would be quite excellent for a Zorram or a Radeon plugged into a Mediator PCI slot.

But what I am thinking is that those speeds are really measuring your onboard 16MB of RAM speed.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2013, 04:16:24 PM »
Rather than attempting to quote the big mess, I'll just try to answer them all;

When I had first set up my Amiga with larger partitions, PFS3 was in  talks about being open sourced and so I was waiting for it, but haven't ever gotten around since then to convert it over (namely because it took me a long time to give into the idea that I needed to recap my system to fix all the random crashes, finally did that and now it's rock solid).  I'm going to have to figure out where the 'frags' command is, since it says 'Unknown command'.  I know I've used it before... a few decades ago.

If I recall (it's been a LONG time since I played Mail Order Monsters) you had several game modes, one was against "The Horde" where the both of you were on a map and tried to prevent the computer controlled creatures from getting to the bottom, then once you encountered one, it'd zoom in like Archon did, and you'd roam around the map trying to defeat the creature.

I have played the majority of those!  I love Temple of Apshai (and the precursor, Gateway to Apshai)  I still fire it up occasionally.  In fact recently my brother and I were playing Jumpman on my Atari 130XE connected to my 55" LED TV..  It was AWESOME!  M.U.L.E. is one of the awesome games I never got around to playing, and I think some of those didn't come out for the Atari, since I don't recognize them.

More creatures you killed, the more money you got, the more you could improve your creature.  It was awesome, I'd recommend firing up the C64 or Atari 8-bit emulator and give it a play!  Add some elements to Total Chaos 8!

Sorry, I figured it was Total Chaos revision 7, not a full blown sequel of a sequel of a sequel... etc.  :D  

Radeon memory is running at 3.0, 6.0, 6.0, 4.9, 9.8, 9.8.  That's some crappy read.  Still not sure why that's showing up as 115 meg with 128 in the RadeonMem file.  I'll have to play around with that a bit.

slaapliedje
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Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2013, 04:30:51 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;737296
I wrote TotalChaosAGA to be super efficient and almost always use move.l instead of moving words or bytes.  That way I scam a bunch of extra bandwidth for free. :)
Free is always good!

Quote
That is scary  :huh:
Yeah, I figured "Okay, it's addressing over what the other memory address is, I'll move it down in the slot, and hope the mediator can do it's work and change the addressing for me.  So here's the weird part;  It didn't change the memory address, but it did seem to fix my overheating issues, the Zorram card was in the highest slot on the motherboard, and after adding in the Cyberstorm card, it seemed the mediator was getting really hot, but after moving that card to the lowest (the furthest away from the cyberstorm's memory module I could get) to seems to be running much cooler now.
Quote

Sounds plausible.
Either u wrote the number wrong or something is terribly screwed up.  That only works out to 8MB of RAM.  The other 120MB just vanished. :confused:

Definitely DID write it down wrong.  Just ran showconfig again and it shows;

Node type $A, Attributes $505 (FAST), at $8000000-$BFFFFFF (64.0 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $505 (FAST), at $7000000-$7FFFFFF (16.0 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $405 (FAST), at $70000000-$77FFFFFF (128.0 meg)
Node type $A, Attributes $2005 (FAST), at $40C00000-$47EFFFFF (115.0 meg)[/code]

I feel like a retard now :D

Those speeds would be quite excellent for a Zorram or a Radeon plugged into a Mediator PCI slot.

But what I am thinking is that those speeds are really measuring your onboard 16MB of RAM speed.[/QUOTE]

Zorram numbers are 10.0, 10.5, 10.4, 6.3, 6.3, 6.2

slaapliedje  (the one who missed an extra 0.)
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2013, 02:11:05 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;737308

 In fact recently my brother and I were playing Jumpman on my Atari 130XE connected to my 55" LED TV..  It was AWESOME!  M.U.L.E. is one of the awesome games I never got around to playing, and I think some of those didn't come out for the Atari, since I don't recognize them.

If u r ever in my area we need to have a Jumpman party and/or a M.U.L.E. party!  2 of the best games of all time! (Along with Total Chaos of course ;)


Quote

Sorry, I figured it was Total Chaos revision 7, not a full blown sequel of a sequel of a sequel... etc.  :D  

The "r" was supposed to mean "Release" not "revision" but I could maybe change it to "s" for "Sequel"...


Quote

Radeon memory is running at 3.0, 6.0, 6.0, 4.9, 9.8, 9.8.  That's some crappy read.


Yeah the Read speed suxx0rz but luckily most programs never read the gfx card memory.  Normally they just write to it.  And you have 9.8MB/sec move.l write speed which is about as good as you could hope for.

I can't remember the exact numbers for a Replay ottomh but let's just say you should get about 3x that, or 30MB/sec.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2013, 02:14:57 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;737311

Zorram numbers are 10.0, 10.5, 10.4, 6.3, 6.3, 6.2


Hehehe the Zorram numbers are the reverse of the Radeon.  Now you get good Read Speed and crap write speed.  Luckily you were smart enough to get a CPU with COPYBACK Cache so it hardly ever needs to write anything to your slow ram.  So you get maximum amount of value for your investment.

Copyback cache is so totally completely awesome.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2013, 04:05:36 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;737293
Darnit!  I never played Mail Order Monsters!  We had the game.  I remember seeing the disk all the time.  One of my brother's had it.  And I remember it loading from disk for multiple eternities.  But I can't remember anything about the gameplay...  I missed a classic? :(


Mail Order Monsters was one of the greatest games ever for the C64.  Pretty much everything by EA (Deathlord, Legacy of the Ancients, Wasteland, etc. etc., at that time) was, and it's a huge loss that they were never ported to the Amiga.  Skipping all the technical details in the above posts, are you guys saying that Total Chaos is anything like M.O.M.?  If so....  aaaargh!  I might have to somehow make room on my coffee table for an AGA system!  ;-)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
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Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2013, 04:44:47 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;737393
If u r ever in my area we need to have a Jumpman party and/or a M.U.L.E.  party!  2 of the best games of all time! (Along with Total Chaos of  course ;))
Agreed!  Hmm, a Jumpman remake with a nice scrolling background and more detailed graphics would be awesome!  

Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;737403
Mail Order Monsters was one of the greatest games ever for the C64.  Pretty much everything by EA (Deathlord, Legacy of the Ancients, Wasteland, etc. etc., at that time) was, and it's a huge loss that they were never ported to the Amiga.  Skipping all the technical details in the above posts, are you guys saying that Total Chaos is anything like M.O.M.?  If so....  aaaargh!  I might have to somehow make room on my coffee table for an AGA system!  ;-)

I've thought many times that someone needed to make an updated version of it.  From what I've played of Total Chaos, It's similar to Archon 2, but with a crap ton more options and absolutely amazing sounds / music.  

A new verison of M.O.M. would be epic as well.  I think ChaosLord needs to give that one a try and put some of the ideas into Total ChaosAGA/RTG 8!

slaapliedje

Edit;  Oh, I have attempted to switch my partitions over to PFS3, so I have 4GB for System: 31GB for Work: and 41GB for Games:, but damned if I can get the last partition to STAY.  Whenever I reboot, it says it's uninitialized!  Any ideas/suggestions?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 04:47:15 PM by slaapliedje »
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2013, 06:42:01 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;737403
Mail Order Monsters was one of the greatest games ever for the C64.

I just watched it on the ut00be.  Can't believe I never ever ever saw this game b4!@??!?

Quote

  Pretty much everything by EA (Deathlord, Legacy of the Ancients, Wasteland, etc. etc., at that time) was, and it's a huge loss that they were never ported to the Amiga.

+999


Quote

  Skipping all the technical details in the above posts, are you guys saying that Total Chaos is anything like M.O.M.?  If so....  aaaargh!  I might have to somehow make room on my coffee table for an AGA system!  ;-)


Total Chaos is "anything" like it, in that I wanted to make a game where you fight your monsters against each other in an arena.  But I did it as a boardgame cause I am a big fan of board games.

I had thought about having an optional arcade battling option (like the battling of Archon or M.O.M.) but I decided not to code it myself due to I wanted the game to be 100% netplayable and you can't do good 2D battling over the net.  The random lag ruins it.  (3D games get around the problem by LYING and CHEATING and FAKING everything.  In 3D games everything is a big illusion and you can't get away with that stuff in a 2d game that needs 100% accuracy.)

Ok so I added in some code to Total Chaos so that any random person could code in gfx fx for the game using any random programming language of their choice.  I did that and it worked.  I also offered to put in "subgames" using the same technique.  One guy coded a breakout subgame in Blitz Basic.  Nobody coded an "archon / M.O.M arcade battling subgame" tho.

I have 4096 unfinished tasks on my plate already so there is just no way I can code an action battling subgame.  But if someone else wants to code one then I am sure we can integrate it into the main boardgame.

Basically when a battle is supposed to happen the game calls a CLI command (which is the battling game written in any language by anybody) with some parameters such as a big block of chipram that can be used for the screen, the player names, the player units involved in the battle, etc.

Then we'd have it.


In M.O.M. you get money and they u get to go BUY any body part or weapon you want.

In Total Chaos you have to go out and FIND the body parts, weapons or whatever and then you cast them (with magic) onto whichever monster you want.  M.O.M. had like 12 body parts and 11 weapons while Total Chaos has a megabajillion different ways to customize your monsters.  Total Chaos just plain has a lot more "statistics" for each monster so there are more ways to customize them and build them up.

Many ppl have played Total Chaos continuously for several years and they still write in with crazy stories of new combinations they found that created some totally wacked out new type of monster.

Sometimes you will find an addon that doesn't seem very good but then you realize later that if you could find just exactly the right kind of monster to put this addon onto then you could win the game! Yar!

Other addons are obviously excellent but then you must strategically decide which of your many monsters do u want to add this awesome addon onto?

One statistic that I did not see in the youtube video was FLYING.  All the monster battles I saw were conducted by ground units only.  In Total Chaos there can be walls, rocks, castles and things on the battlefield that get in the way of walking and fighting.  But FLYING creatures just fly right over them.

Also any unit might gain the ARCHERY skill which lets your monster shoot OVER the walls.

When fighting in a maze, either of the above 2 skillz is quite good to have.

In Total Chaos there are a few monsters that you can ride around on, like Centaurs and Unicorns but you can obtain magic spells that let you make ANY monster be Rideable (mountable) even a Tyranasaurus Rex or a Triceratops or a Red Dragon or anything!  And Red Dragons Fly!  That means you could ride around on a flying Monster!

I didn't see any wizards casting magic spells onto their monsters in M.O.M.
In Total Chaos you are a wizard and you are dealt a deck of random spells each game that you can strategically decide to cast on your monsters (or against the enemy monsters).  For example maybe you just got lucky and have a Replicate spell in your spellbook.  It lets Replicate anything on the gameboard.  Do u have the patience to wait until you build up your monster into something like Godzilla?  Or do u you just cast it right now onto the best good monster you have?

You can also play with the Scrolls option which litters the battlefield with a random collection of Magic Scrolls.  Now you not only have to decide which magic spell to cast from ur hand and which monsters to move and which monsters will attack and which will stay back and be defensive but now u have to decide which Magic Scrolls you will pick up and which u will pass by.  Sometimes there can be powerful scrolls that you just hafta have but zomg! its right next to a Monster Generator!  Or maybe it is closer to your enemy than it is to u.  What do u do?  Do u run after it?  Or just declare it a loss?  Or do u do something devious to distract your opponent(s) so they won't grab it for themselves and u can sneak over and grab it later?   Augh! Its Total Chaos!
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2013, 06:46:19 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;737409

Edit;  Oh, I have attempted to switch my partitions over to PFS3, so I have 4GB for System: 31GB for Work: and 41GB for Games:, but damned if I can get the last partition to STAY.  Whenever I reboot, it says it's uninitialized!  Any ideas/suggestions?


I donno anything about it.

If u start a new thread about it then Thomas will see it and he will know the answer for sure.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline slaapliedjeTopic starter

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2013, 02:07:53 PM »
I did find another post with people talking about the same issue.  I ended up just wiping it, and creating one large partition after System (So now I just have System: and Work: instead of System:, Work:, and Games:.  Good thing I can create whatever Assigns I want :D

slaapliedje
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: So much memory... what to do?
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2013, 05:01:20 PM »
One advantage to having 1 big partition is that you save a lot of hard drive buffers.

Instead of needing 1000 buffers (0.5 MB) for 10 different partitions (5MB total) you can give urself 2000 buffers on 1 big partition.

Though in fairness there are various advantages to having a few different partitions as long as you don't have to many of them.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA