A few questions for AmigaOS 4.x users...

[save2600]

Is AmigaOS 4.x a more "complete" OS in that, once purchased, you don't have to hunt and peck for files all over creation that are needed shortly after purchasing in order for the basics or some modern things to run? For example, if you go to download a game and try to play it, will it still ask you for all these MUI or GUI-like classes or libs? It has a built in DVD player, right? .pdf viewer? e-mail client? How about internet.... what TCP client or is networking better integrated yet? OWB for a web browser as standard? What about USB handling... still Poseidon? Display output... still CyberGFX? AmigaAMP? How is printing handled today?  

As an aside, anything available as sophisticated as iTunes? Any photo editing software included like Showgirls? If not, what are people using? How about video importing and post production? If not, what are people using?

Are we still talking bare-bones hobbyist/developer/Frankenputer fare here or is it a little more well rounded and mature? Inquiring minds want to know. Not looking to start a flame war, these are genuine, 'clueless' questions as I haven't paid attention to anything "officially" AmigaOS wise since 3.9.

[redfox]

@save2600

I own a MicroA1 and run AmigaOS 4.1 Update 2 (the latest public version).

I am a user, ... not a beta tester or developer.

As I understand it, we use Reaction as standard.

However, we also have an AmigaOS4 version of MUI, called MUI version 3.9, for compatibility with MUI programs.  This version of MUI comes standard with AmigaOS 4.x, and is installed as part of the system install.

I do not know what Poseidon/Trident are.  I don't know what our USB stack is called, but I can use my Lexar JumpDrive USB stick and my Kingston DataTraveller USB stick and transfer pictures from my camera over USB.  I have not tried hooking up a USB hard drive or USB optical drive.

Not sure what you mean by "complete" OS.

It comes with everything needed to boot up and function.  The system is still under development, so new features are added to each release and there are some bugfixes now and then.

AmigaOS 4.x comes with NotePad, AmiPDF, MultiView, ARexx, etc.  There are several programs included on the AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1 CD such as DiskMaster2, DvPlayer, IBrowse, OWB, SimpleMail, YAM, AmiDVD, DiskImage, DOpus4 and TuneNet.

However, it does not come with applications like TVPaint, Final Writer 97 or AmigaWriter.

So, for example, I added AmigaAMP, KingCON, Final Writer 97, WarpView, PPaint, TVPaint, Real3D, MakeCD, AmiDVD, CinnamonWriter, NetSurf and Timberwolf.  I currently have 5 web browsers on my system, AWeb, IBrowse, NetSurf, OWB and Timberwolf.  AWeb and IBrowse are old now.  I keep them mostly for nostalgia reasons.  NetSurf and OWB are newer browses.  I use them the most.  The Timberwolf version I have is a very early (alpha) release version.

There are print drivers for some printers but not all.  So, for example, I can't print to our Epson Stylus CX4800 printer which we use with our Windows X86 PC system.

---
redfox

[Duce]

I have a SAM 440ep (OS 4.1u2, 2 TB SATA HD, onboard gfx) and have used dozens of various USB HD's, memory sticks, and a few networking items and never had a single issue with OS 4 not seeing said USB devices.  I've never seen nor heard of requests from Poseidon/Trident a single time.  Whatever OS 4.1 uses for USB handling, it's always does it completely transparently to me, I've never had a single issue with it.  It's always run absolutely flawlessly with the above listed devices.  Even when I plug USB sticks or HD's into my G 19 keyboard USB ports and such.  After installing SAMBA, the SAM sees all the network shares on all my Windows boxes on my network just fine, which is handy.

I have not really had a reason to run many too MUI apps, but I am running MailManager (a legacy Fidonet mail tosser from the old days, a MUI app) on OS 4 with absolutely zero issues as well.  As Redfox said, it comes with MUI.  Not hit a problem yet with MUI apps.

Overall my summary on OS 4/SAM is:  It's a fun little rig to have, but don't expect it to run all the old legacy apps well, and certainly don't expect it to replace a windows/mac/linux machine for internet purposes if you require modern browsers.  Timberwolf isn't usable currently IMHO, but OWB works well.  Some old apps still require emulation via UAE/GLUAE.

As a whole I am very happy with what I get out of my SAM and I enjoy it a lot, but as with all the new gen PPC Amiga's (or older legacy Amiga's with PPC/Bvision), the price can tend to be a little unjustifiable.

[save2600]

Thanks Duce and Redfox - you answered a lot of my questions  

What I mean by "more complete"...

No third party printing program (ie: TurboPrint) with drivers for various printers gets run before you can actually print something?

So MUI 3.9 and all its requisite classes are already installed and part of OS4.x? You download and install a game and you do not get a requester (or have to look at SnoopDOS/Snopium to find what's missing) saying you need to track some other classes or libs down from somewhere?

And as far as this USB stack transparency goes... so the MUI/Poseidon thing is non-existent? There's another stack of some kind? One with less 'features' (shit to tweak), that's more automatic or "smarter"? You plug USB devices in and they simply work as they should?

[Duce]

I've never had a USB device ask for drivers or anything, but admittedly I have never tried using a printer (my printers are Ethernet anyways, not using USB for them).  Never had an issue with a USB thumb drive or USB HD asking for any additional software, I've not hit a device yet that didn't work the moment it was plugged in.

As for MUI, with the few MUI apps I've used for any length of time (MailManager, GMS and a few others), I've never been asked for other SW requirements from the system.  I've simply installed the MUI apps and they have worked.

Both USB devices and MUI on OS 4 for me have been completely as seamless and painless as they are on Windows, Linux or OS X - plug and play, but YMMV.  I can only speak from a SAM owners perspective, not sure how different OS 4 is on older, beefed legacy Amiga's.

[save2600]

For clarification, I'm not talking about running OS4.x on a legacy system of any type. Strictly modern hardware running modern software. And yeah, I get bug fixes, etc.

So, just gathering the few responses so far... can one say that AmigaOS 4.x provides a close computing experience to that of what we fell in love with back in the 80's with our Amigas? Or currently with Apple's OSX? In that I mean, "stuff" for the most part, just works? Transparently or with minimal fuss?

[redfox]

@save2600

I use AmigaOS4 PPC version of E-UAE and AmigaOS 3.1 to provide a suitable environment for programs such as AmigaBASIC, the Amiga Appetizer package, Microfiche Filer, MaxiPlan, AmigaVision, MegaBall4, and Shanghai game.  AmigaVision will launch and run directly on OS4, but it crashes very easily.  All the programs I mentioned in my earlier post will launch and run directly on OS4.

redfox

[redfox]

deleting doublepost ...

[lsmart]

I own a SAM440ep Flex running OS4.1u2. In my experience it is a very complete system.
For printing I needed the LPR-Device from OS4Depot (Postscript Laser networked Printer)
I once updated a MUI class for some program, cant remember why. Many classic programs run out of the box. Normal USB-Devices run out of the box, but I haven´t tried Serial-Adapters, Midi, Audio or Webcams yet. The stack is 1.1 only though (=slow). Most of the software doesn´t require much setup (DVDs just burn). Linux in the 90s was definitely far less complete. Network setup took me 2 minutes - never had to look at it again; The hardest part was to remember which of the two ethernet ports I was using, when I switched cases. MUI and AHI have confusin setup-dialogs and there is no narrator.device (I use the flite.device from OS4-Depot instead).

Here is what I use the most:

DVPlayer is good for watching DVDs, etc (light version included)
Mplayer plays flash Movies from the internet (wget and getvideo help)
TuneNet replaces iTunes (included in OS4)
ArtEffect replaces Photoshop
YAM replaces OutlookExpress (included)
AmiPhoto is a bit like Apples iPhoto, but I don´t use it much.
Amicygnix provides a lot of common Linux Programs
AmigaWriter, Hollywood Designer and TurboCalc fulfill office needs
OWB 3.30 is a good, but simple browser
HDrec is my GarageBand, but I havent figured how to get the SAMs audio-in working, so I use an external recorder.

[cha05e90]

Transparently or with minimal fuss?

If you are used to setup and tweak an OS3.x system you will have no real problem working with OS4.1 (or MorphOS 2.7 in this respect). It is still transparent - but, no, it's a similar fuss as you know already from your OS3.x systems. I must admit that both PPC-OS are more mature and "complete" than all 68k-OS I used from the Commodore and H&P era. Nevertheless it's still more work to get them up and running and up-to-date compared to "all-inclusive-gigabyte-DVD"-OS like Linux, MacOS or Windows.

The - for myself - biggest shortcoming is printing. But it's no problem anymore, 'cos I switched already during my 68k-only Amiga area to 100% postscript/PCL network printing and never looked back. I will never ever buy a directly-to-the-computer connected printer anymore. Now everything works just fine with all my systems (OS3.9, OS4.1, MorphOS2.7).

[lsmart]

... close computing experience to that of what we fell in love with back in the 80's with our Amigas? Or currently with Apple's OSX?

No, not like OS X. Apples almost never crash. On Amiga OS4 you have to know what you are doing, but you have more freedom and far less unnecessary tasks running (no Spotlight, Time Machine, Dashboard,  Exposé, Multitouch, Bonjour, ...) and it starts within seconds.
Consequently the feeling of "ease of use" is quite different.

[save2600]

Thanks much for all the great replies. Very interesting reads and I especially appreciate hearing what people are using for software and what the comparatives are. I did not know OS4's USB stack is just 1.1 though. Sounds like there might be a lot less config hassles, but at the expense of speed.

Playing around with MorphOS on the G4 Mini last night, I transferred a 13gb file in 18 minutes using an external 2.0 WD hard drive. Of course, the system did not bring up an icon for this particular partition or device as I had to 'mount' if first. lol  BUT... the initial transfer to the external drive took 28 minutes on my 2.1ghz G5 iMac. What a difference! I really love the snappy 'feel' of these alternative or Amiga-like OS's and would like to give OS4 a try someday.