Buster and Deneb questions

[TheGoose]

I was gonna put this in market place but thought first I should ask some questions. I have a A3000D with a Deneb card. I bought and tried a Buster 11 in it but it just would not work. It would boot but with Deneb, it would just freeze up. I installed it correctly, correct orientation etc.

Could someone guess/say as to why this might be? I put the old v7 back in and got things working in PIO mode. But would like to see the Deneb work at its full potential - get my moneys worth.

And were there different Buster version built specific for the different big box models (A4000D/T, A3000D/T, A2000)?

Are they truly meant to be interchangeable?

Ask all this cause I need to know what I'm looking for. I'd like to find a Buster v9 - seems to be the choice chip, any leads?

Thanks

[arnljot]

To answer your questions I think you´d at least need to list all your Zorro cards.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Check out the ZorRam thread. There's seems to be a bug in buster 11 with regards to DMA.

[TheGoose]

@arnljot

I have the Deneb and an X-Surf 2. Nothing else, no graphics card.

It has:

030 25Mhz with 2MBChip and 16MB Fastram

[wawrzon]

if it works in pio mode it should work with 11 as well. what processor board do you have? ive recall there were some probs with cs mk2

[matthey]

And were there different Buster version built specific for the different big box models (A4000D/T, A3000D/T, A2000)?

The Super Busters (9 and 11) are only for 3000(T) and 4000(T) with ZIII. I believe there is 2 different versions of the Buster 9. One is for 3000 and one for 4000 although I don't know how much difference there is. There is only 1 universal Buster 11 as far as I know.

Are they truly meant to be interchangeable?

The Buster 11 is. It contains "fixes" for the 3000 that makes it more stable so it's definitely made for the 3000 too. I have used it for the 3000 and found it to be very stable and a good upgrade (allows for faster ZIII transfers).

Ask all this cause I need to know what I'm looking for. I'd like to find a Buster v9 - seems to be the choice chip, any leads?

You don't need the Buster 9 for a 3000. The Buster 11 is what you want with Deneb. Some 4000 owners need the Buster 9 with a Deneb. This is because the Buster 11 only supports 1 bus master and a 4000 with 4091, Fastlane, or 4000T SCSI have a problem because of this. The Buster 9 may not work properly in a 3000.

[TheGoose]

Very helpful, thanks. I'm going to locate the 11 chip and see if I can learn anything from its numbers...

So I'm thinking stick with 11, maybe I have a bad version or bad chip...

The Super Busters (9 and 11) are only for 3000(T) and 4000(T) with ZIII. I believe there is 2 different versions of the Buster 9. One is for 3000 and one for 4000 although I don't know how much difference there is. There is only 1 universal Buster 11 as far as I know.



The Buster 11 is. It contains "fixes" for the 3000 that makes it more stable so it's definitely made for the 3000 too. I have used it for the 3000 and found it to be very stable and a good upgrade (allows for faster ZIII transfers).



You don't need the Buster 9 for a 3000. The Buster 11 is what you want with Deneb. Some 4000 owners need the Buster 9 with a Deneb. This is because the Buster 11 only supports 1 bus master and a 4000 with 4091, Fastlane, or 4000T SCSI have a problem because of this. The Buster 9 may not work properly in a 3000.

[mr_a500]

I was gonna put this in market place but thought first I should ask some questions. I have a A3000D with a Deneb card. I bought and tried a Buster 11 in it but it just would not work. It would boot but with Deneb, it would just freeze up. I installed it correctly, correct orientation etc.

Could someone guess/say as to why this might be? I put the old v7 back in and got things working in PIO mode. But would like to see the Deneb work at its full potential - get my moneys worth.

And were there different Buster version built specific for the different big box models (A4000D/T, A3000D/T, A2000)?

Are they truly meant to be interchangeable?

Ask all this cause I need to know what I'm looking for. I'd like to find a Buster v9 - seems to be the choice chip, any leads?

I have this exact same problem. I put an A4000 Buster 11 into my A3000, and the Deneb card either isn't detected or the A3000 won't boot. When I put the old Buster 7 back in, the Deneb is detected.

Edit: I think I've figured it out - for me anyway. I've got the 16Mhz A3000 and I just found a Dave Haynie quote:

There have been reports of trouble with Rev 11 Buster in 16MHz A3000s.
This was supposedly tested and approved by PA at Commodore. But by
then, we weren't making 16MHz systems anymore, so there wasn't much
testing or simulation done in Engineering, if any, for the later
Buster revision.

How tragic.

[TheGoose]

Interesting, hmm, but mine is a 25Mhz version...same issue, no boot with Deneb. Sketchy performance when pulled out.

I have this exact same problem. I put an A4000 Buster 11 into my A3000, and the Deneb card either isn't detected or the A3000 won't boot. When I put the old Buster 7 back in, the Deneb is detected.

Edit: I think I've figured it out - for me anyway. I've got the 16Mhz A3000 and I just found a Dave Haynie quote:

There have been reports of trouble with Rev 11 Buster in 16MHz A3000s.
This was supposedly tested and approved by PA at Commodore. But by
then, we weren't making 16MHz systems anymore, so there wasn't much
testing or simulation done in Engineering, if any, for the later
Buster revision.

How tragic.

[save2600]

I have a 25mhz A3000 w/ Buster 11 and a Deneb card. ZIII mode still does not work. PIO is the fastest I can use with it.

[Zac67]

AFAIR, Super Buster 11 does not work - at all - at 16 MHz. Just swap the crystal, change the jumpers and you're fine.

SB 11 in a 3000 is said to allow no additional bus master besides onboard SCSI. However, onboard SCSI is not Z III, but I gather Michael et al have verified this issue very thoroughly so I trust them to be right. SB 9 has several glitches (being the first Level II), so it's quite possible that there are issues with the A3k's SCSI.

[billt]

You don't need the Buster 9 for a 3000. The Buster 11 is what you want with Deneb. Some 4000 owners need the Buster 9 with a Deneb. This is because the Buster 11 only supports 1 bus master and a 4000 with 4091, Fastlane, or 4000T SCSI have a problem because of this. The Buster 9 may not work properly in a 3000.

Interesting. Anyone want to make us an FPGA replacement for Super Buster to fix all this? And a way to install such a thing in some machines with surface mounted Super Buster chip? (My A3000 has a socket, my A4000T is soldered)

[TheGoose]

Ok, but my hunch, experience is that , when you say

"Buster 11 only supports 1 bus master"

I agree but, onboard SCSI gobbles this up, and no DMA left for the Zorro slots...

[mboehmer_e3b]

Ok, but my hunch, experience is that , when you say

"Buster 11 only supports 1 bus master"

I agree but, onboard SCSI gobbles this up, and no DMA left for the Zorro slots...

Sorry for the delay, but my A4000T test machine is under rework now (capacitors, once again). I can make tests with DENEB and SCSI / Buster11 as soon as the machine is up and running again.

Stay tuned. Michael

[save2600]

I have a 25mhz A3000 w/ Buster 11 and a Deneb card. ZIII mode still does not work. PIO is the fastest I can use with it.

Whoops, since this topic came back up again in a PM, I thought I'd clarify what I learned from other users here, especially from Matt_H. PIO Mode (denebpiodevice) *IS* Zorro III, just not in DMA mode which is what the third driver Zorro III DMA operation (denebz3.device or whatever it's called) would allow if possible with the right Buster. Apparently, Buster 11 is not good enough to support such operation as that's what I have in my machine and it does not work.

So, PIO does utilize Zorro III still and would explain why I'm happy with it the way it is. Transfers from a USB stick are super quick, much quicker than using the card in ZII mode! I had originally thought PIO was still Zorro II, just faster somehow. Thanks all for the clarification.