Genesi : 'How we see things'

[downix]

@MarkTime

Breaking an EULA does not make a product illegal.  Breaking any contract does not render something illegal.  It is not illegal to run Mac OS X on any machine, even non-Apple ones.  It is, however, against the EULA, but even then there are limits to the EULA that can allow users to run Apple's OS on any platform, if you've ever read the actual EULA.

[Turrican]

Most of HOW YOU SEE THINGS seems "ok" with me, except that one thing:

1.Security and Privacy issues will be balanced along with a number of excisting tools to create a safer computing/internet experience. As the citizen of a country you have certain rights and responsibilities. Think about what is required to vote in an election or obtain a passport. Why should the Internet-based Community be any different?

I really don't like that paragraph! Words like "Microsoft", "Paladium" and "RIAA" instantly come into mind. This looks like M$'s vision of controlling the user, the internet and eventually the whole World!

Internet was meant to be FREE and everybody I know likes it that way. An attempt to restrict what the user does with his/her computer (either on the on the internet or locally and on any level) would be the worst thing IMO.

[xisp]

Turrican said:

I really don't like that paragraph! Words like "Microsoft", "Paladium" and "RIAA" instantly come into mind. This looks like M$'s vision of controlling the user, the internet and eventually the whole World!    Internet was meant to be FREE and everybody I know likes it that way. An attempt to restrict what the user does with his/her computer (either on the on the internet or locally and on any level) would be the worst thing IMO.

Yes, this worries me a lot too. I clearly feel this is unavoidable, "they" want to implant changes to law, hardware and software, so "they" can finally control it: The Internet.

My suggestion is to not let them do what they want. They will give excuses like copyright preservation to increase control over citizens. Instead, we have to give an optional route, so they get empty of excuses.

My view is to effectively enforce a system in which copyright is perfectly defined for digital content. Add to it an infraestructure of identity and e-commerce that WORKS and is REALLY SECURE.

Well, now avoid doing it too much restrictive, so pirating is still possible, but it becomes something without sense because you can easilly pay e-money for intelectual property, giving you rights to play music or movies EVERY TIME you want.

You pay ONCE you have it forever.
The system must include features such as giving information of how what you pay is split between  the author, the producer, etc..

The system must be built in such a way as to make it so decentralized that anyone can sell its copyrighted material without intervention of big organizations. THIS is true capitalism. Anyone can buy, anyone can sell.

My view is to establish a system which turns P2P into legality, with the added ability to provide means to normal people to create content that can be sold without the hassles of being tied to a big company.

Consequences: With time, I am sure that big players of music will loose its place because of their mediocre quality. Modest artists will be as powerful as them and will rise from the obscure places they are now.

[anarchic_teapot]

I hope 'EULA free' doesn't mean, 'pirate platform.'

Well, since EULA merely means "End User Licence Agreement" I would tend to argue that the statement actually means Bog All.

(I won't predict what Genesi will do, because
unlike Amiga, Inc. they aren't so predictable)

O ye of little faith...  :-D

[downix]

@xisp

There are two ways to regulate data:

1) per-machine
2) per-user

Microsoft is solidly in the 1st method, with Palladium.  Genesi is for the 2nd, using user-identification to allow for DRM to be handled on a per-user basis.  Meaning that once you buy something, it's yours.  Like my copy of 1984 sitting right here that I just finished, I paid for it, so thereby I own it.  I do not own the copyright, but I own the book.

[kokigami]

Well, as I read it they have fallen a bit short of truely revolutionary. They have a vision, and a plan, and now they are attempting some guerilla marketing, but the structure is still built around corporate self interests.

So here is my challenge. Go it one step further and restructure as a cooperative. Individuals entering into the Genesi Family will have shared interest in success, and a say in the future. This is the ingredient that the Community has lacked since commodore.

The hardware and the OS made amiga a machine of great potential. Potential that was wasted due to the natural tendency for corporate entities to choose profit over quality. But the community made it all durable. The community has provided more support for the Amiga than any of her corporate owners ever did.

Now, Genesi seems to be trying to Co-Opt that spirit and create a computing revolution. Seems to me like they should be offering more than an employee like status.

[IonDeluxe]

Some of this does sound extremely similar to what another company has said....

Giving employees shares is the same strat M$ has used for many many years, and is really just an alternate way of paying any said emplyees, replacing currency for something that *might* be worth far more in the future, thereby keeping the hard cash within the company.


The privays issue sounds completely TCPA to me...SAY NO TO TCPA!

Once again its stated the pegasos is nothing more than a development machine for thier other enterprises, which is where thier focus is.

This VIsion(tm) is remarkabley similar to that other company, with the exception one has chosen a software route, and the other a hardware route.

All fluff and cheering aside, the meat of this "announcement" is really that Genesi have spent huge amounts of resources promoting themselves, and now the wallet is beginning to look a little dry.They are now simply doing an "investment drive"
The validity of thier statements on thier self claimed strong position has yet to be proven, and something only time will tell.

All in all it is a pretty speech, inspiational to the believers.My only question is:
What is a Genesi promotional/investment drive announcement doing and an Amiga website?

I would be just as astonished to see a Toyota promotion in a Ford fan magazine.

[ikir]

[raddydaddy]

* more applause ( and slight whooping ) *

The current computing world is fast becoming stale with so many immitation products and more rehashes of old software. It IS time for the next computer revolution - and for that, somebody needs to increase the competition against the dominant 'boring' superpowers. Remember just 15 years ago,  there were numerous computers all offering their own solutions to computing : Spectrum, Atari, Commodore, Tandy, BBC, Amiga...

The greatest strength of the Amiga ever since way back was the innovation of the solution, and the community!

If we pooled our community together into an open forum where everybody discusses ideas and suggestions for implementations of the future of computing, these ideas would become refined and flaws spotted, new iterations developed and new ideas sparked....

Genesi should be applauded for understanding that selling to only a niche market will never change the world.  We need new solutions, and as the most opinionated user group in the world - we need community input!

stop bickering like bitches and commit yourselves to improving the computing world rather than tearing apart the community that is all we have left.

[downix]

@IonDeluxe

AOrg is an Amiga community website, not an Amiga, Inc website.  They even went so far as to get their own web hosting after Amiga, Inc started to put pressure on them to be AInc-exclusive.  It is to have material covering the whole gambit of the Amiga community, from UAE to even AmigaDE.  Heck, I've even seen things like the CommodoreONE or the XGamesStation on here quite a bit.  They all relate to the community, or are a part of the community, thereby they should be covered.  Genesi is part of the community, not only from it's employees (who are, for the most part, from older Amiga companies, including Commodore itself) but from it's direction, which was set out to include the community.  Sure, they don't have the brand name, but then again, neither did the Draco or the WonderTV, but they are still Amiga's in at least spirit if not name.

If AOrg were to go with strictly Amiga, Inc news, it would cut into a third of it's information.  No more news about 3D0, no more information about what Milan computers with it's Atari-clone is doing, won't hear a peep about Petro and his new business.  In short, we'd become a closed community, and closed systems suffer from entropy, a gradual decay to oblivion.  I'd rather keep things open, and sure I'd see stuff I'm not going to read (like the XGamesStation for good example) but there are stuff that I will read (like the C-ONE).  It makes things more interesting, and gives us a larger view of the world.  We Amigans are part of a greater world, and we must understand that only by seeing the similarities rather than the differences can we grow as a community again.

[magnetic]

BBRV and Genesi -

 What you have all accomplished in just this past year is more than ANYONE has done since Commodore. It has been very refreshing to see your innovative concepts and designs come to life. The Revolution has Begun! You have vision of the future and a roadmap to get there. This whole Amiga vs Genesi has been put behind us. The only people holding on to it are the "amiga zealots" who actually seem jeoulous of your success. It is clear to people in the know that OS4 and MOS are going in different, although somewhat parellel directions.
 However, Genesi has a huge advantage as we have a complete Native App Suite and a very robust and effecient Working OS. I actually look forward to using my Pegasos and it is much more stable than my 4000T PPC which hasnt been powered on in a month!
  What you need to do now is get the production of Pegasos 2 going and keep refining the OS. We need BurnIT Pro for DVD burning/backup, Intergrated TCP/IP stack, and a Firewire Video Capture/Edit solution and we are off to the races. I recieve email almost daily inquiring about when Pegasos2 will be for sale. People are waiting for the Revolution! We are so far past this OS war its not even funny. Many people outside the MOS community dont really know what is going to happen in the future, and I can say as a Long Time Amigan (1988) this is the most excited I've been about a Computer in my Life!

Keep up the good work and keep dreaming and realizing!

magnetic

[HMetal]

Downix wrote:
They even went so far as to get their own web hosting after Amiga, Inc started to put pressure on them to be AInc-exclusive.

Nate, that is pure nonsense.  No one here pressured Wayne to be Amiga, Inc. exclusive.  If he's telling you that, then he is a liar.

The fact is, the pressure on Wayne was from community members, not Amiga.

[bhoggett]

@HMetal

The fact is, the pressure on Wayne was from community members, not Amiga.

Yes, and we know exactly who those community members are and how close their relationship to Amiga Inc is.

I put it to you Ray that Amiga Inc employees not only knew about the pressure those "community members" were putting on Amiga.org, but also actively encouraged it.

[System]

Ray --

Let's not open that can of worms again, shall we?  You are very well aware of what they taste like, as well as the true origins of this situation and people involved.  

It only remains to be revealed that those specific people are -- in fact -- being employed or supported (well at least in the same sense as you are being 'paid') by Amiga Inc in some fashion.

In the end, irrelevant.  I no longer work here.

[HMetal]

@Wayne

Considering that you and Nate both work for Genesi, I think it's absolutely appalling that you, on what many believe is a very upstanding "community site," state something like this without undeniable and unverifiable proof.

I know that no one with direct contact to me had ever intended to or had never harassed you in any way.  Again, Vince and I went out of our way to make sure you and the site were happy.

It is Vince and I who have/had 100% control of the servers outside of HQ and no one else, and you knew that.

As for this "can of worms," I will keep it open until I am satisfied that it is settled once and for all, either way.