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Author Topic: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.  (Read 9975 times)

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Offline persia

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #59 from previous page: November 21, 2008, 01:33:20 AM »
Gotta admit Bill's press releases are funny.  It took me a while to realise he was a comedian.

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Offline Crumb

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2008, 09:52:01 AM »
@B00tDisk

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These are, IMO, crap opinions. The closed up console-like case design of the A500 kept people from bothering to expand it, and it hobbled Amiga development for years. It was the target platform and nobody bothered to upgrade, except for those dreadful little trapdoor 512k expansions, so no-one bothered to develop beyond it.


Well, that must be a parallel world because people bought memory expansions (from 512k to 8MB), accelerators (that plugged under the 68000 chip or on the side expansion slot), hardware pc emulators that plugged in the trapdoor slot, hard disk controllers... and there was not much difference between the price of A2000 and A500 expansions.

A whole generation knew what Amiga was thanks to A500 and A500 saved Amiga and Commodore. With the prices of your wonderful A3000 there would be only 3 amiga users and no software would have been written.

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As to the demoscene? Those guys will code for TI calculators. The nature of the hardware doesn't really matter. I doubt very seriously if anyone purchased an Amiga based on how many passive animations with loopy techno music behind them they could watch.  


It seems you don't know much about demoscene. The point of demoscene is creating art for the shake of it, not for money, just for your own pleasure. And Amiga allowed creative people to create and to have fun creating art. It was not about buying a computer to be an "art consumer", but an "art creator". I know lots of people who created great music and graphics and a new subculture appeared.

Demoscene was something thightly tied to Amiga since the beggining. What do you think the "boing demo" was? Why early WB versions included a drawer with "demos"? Are you sure nobody was impressed watching the capabilities of the amazing computer? Were you living in other planet?

I remember that I loaded some games to watch the cool cracktro, not to play it. And spend lots of hours with DPaint or creating crap mods, sleeping reading 68k asm books and crashing my computer when running my crappy programs,... and all that inspired by the scene stars.

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The A3000 was so "bad" that Sun begged C= to let them license build them as their next-gen Unix boxes. IDE was {bleep}e at the time compared to SCSI, the 31khz output on the 3000 should've gone to all Amiga models, the Amber was brilliant. Zip chips were still quite common when the 3000 was designed, as well.


The A3000 used a brute force design instead of an elegant one. They could have redesigned the custom chips, specially denise to output video at 31Khz transparently (in fact you can overclock denise to output all Amiga graphics at 31Khz (including WB, my friend Frank Brana has experimented with his A2000 a lot of times doing that) but you'll probably fry it after some time and stuff won't be in sync). With a proper updated denise and some changes to agnus they could have provided 31Khz video simply changing a jumper. Instead of that they choose the brute force approach to save money recycling the chips used in A500/A2000 and created Amber. That crap design forces you to "digitalize" the output images and waste money in some local ram. They could simply have improved denise and the rest of the custom chips but instead of that they took the easiest and most expensive solution.

IDE may be whatever you want, but adding an IDE controller is dead cheap and would have opened the doors to cheap hard disks. Do you think that including an prototype of the scsi chip was a clever idea? Do you think it's normal that you need to perform so many hardware updates to fit Zorro cards and accelerators?


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No, the 3000 was quite superior to any other Amiga, and was the last "balls-out" design the C= engineering team was allowed and funded to create. Everything else was a cheap, cut-down compromise afterward.


The only thing A3000 had better was a FlickerFixer built in as standard. The rest was crap:
-zorro3 slower than A4000 Zorro
-chips that heat a lot (specially with A3640)
-incompatibilities with accelerators
-incompatibilities with scsi controllers built in accelerators
-Same colours as an A500
-Crap case that won't allow you to fit 5 1/4 units
-No IDE
-Crap SCSI that has problems driving multiple devices
-ZIP memory: hard to find, hard to fit, prone to cause problems, expensive.
-Weak PSU
-slow cpus as default
-Lack of SMD components and chips fitted in sockets: that's the cause of bad contacts, lack of reliability.

An A4000T has much more quality and is better designed than A3000. It has a proper scsi chip for example. The only thing it lacks is a FlickerFixer (that you can buy easily).

All in all: you have to trash the entire A3000 to have a decent machine.

trash the roms. Trash the buster chip. Trash Ramsey, trash Dmac, trash the flickerfixer and built in gfx and buy a graphic card because otherwise gfx look so 80's, trash the scsi chip and fit a proper version or a proper controller, trash the case because you can't fit anything inside the supposedly expandable amiga and it heats a lot, trash the PSU as it's too weak,... I could go on.

A3000 are great when you realize standard configuration is too weak, put most of the original A3000 in the trashcan and start to use modern components taken from a reliable computer like A4000 :-)

BTW I actually own expanded A3000, A4000, A4000T, A500, A600, A1200...
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Offline terminator4

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2008, 03:43:25 PM »
@Floid

A500 budget machine, kinda like sam440.
A3000 like A4000T, A1 and the future to be Amiga with pci slots at least.
 

Offline Tension

Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2008, 05:01:06 PM »
A3000+ would have been the best thing ever to have happened.

Ah well...

Offline B00tDisk

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2008, 05:39:55 PM »
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Crumb wrote:


The only thing A3000 had better was a FlickerFixer built in as standard. The rest was crap:
-zorro3 slower than A4000 Zorro


There was no A4000 when the A3000 was designed.  I guess since PCI-e is out now we can slag Z3 because it's slower?
:crazy:  :roll:
 
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-chips that heat a lot (specially with A3640)


And yet all those A3000's survived with passive cooling.  Huh.

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-incompatibilities with accelerators
-incompatibilities with scsi controllers built in accelerators


Yet there are Accelerators aplenty for the A3000 and people fit them and used them all the same.

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-Same colours as an A500


GASP.  JUST!  LIKE!  ALL!  AMIGAS!  IN!  1990!  DOMDOMDOM.  Quick, McCloud, I think you're onto a real conspiracy down at the ranch there!

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-Crap case that won't allow you to fit 5 1/4 units

Right, because 5.25 floppies are so useful.  

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-No IDE


Listen carefully: IDE in 1990 was JUNK.

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-Crap SCSI that has problems driving multiple devices


Wow so the 3000's that have multiple SCSI devices on them then are _______ (fill in the blank).

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-ZIP memory: hard to find, hard to fit, prone to cause problems, expensive.


Hardly "hard to find" nearly 20 years ago.

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-Weak PSU


Endemic of the entire Amiga line, but since they'll, you know, power up with them installed, they seem to work just fine.

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-slow cpus as default


Right, compared to that powerhouse A1000, 2000 and of course the beloved A500, right?  {bleep}, even the "low end" A3000s crapped all over 1st gen Amigas in terms of speed :roll:

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-Lack of SMD components and chips fitted in sockets: that's the cause of bad contacts, lack of reliability.


Jesus, JUST LIKE THE A500.  

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All in all: you have to trash the entire A3000 to have a decent machine.


Snoooooooooort.  Sure thing buddy, just keep telling yourself that.  

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use modern components taken from a reliable computer like A4000 :-)


The A4000 was compromised garbage.  {bleep}ty chipset, crap IDE, crap memory sockets (do a google search for "broken A4000 simm socket" some time) - all the legacy of R&D hobbled by corporate stupidity.
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Offline Christian Johansson

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2008, 05:46:52 PM »
Bill McEwen!

err maybe not :)
 

Offline quarkx

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2008, 07:28:30 PM »
Wow, A lot of opinions flying around here, but no one is seeming to defend the obvious. The original A 1000. It proved at the time, that computers do have power, graphics and a bit of grace. Sure, it was expensive at the time, but no more than an IBM XT. Yes, it does have some faults. It could have used a bit more ram and the chassis a bit wider to accommodate expansion cards, but it got the unit out there and imaginations spinning. It also proved to C that there wass a market for this, and it paved the way for the rest of the line.
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Offline Tron2k2

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2008, 09:49:45 PM »
When I started getting into the Amiga in the early '90s, with my floppy disk based CDTV, I loved these mags.  My wife and I (then, she was my girlfriend) used to go into town every Sunday and buy the latest ones from Barnes and Noble.  She wasn't even into the Amiga (and FWIW, my 3000 0WN3D her Performa, both with 040 CPUs) but she read the mags because they were so well written.

When AF and CU packed it in, I remember sitting there at my computer desk with the last issue of CU (IIRC), the one with the big Monty Python style foot on the cover, and I think I almost cried!

It was such a bummer.  

Modern Mac mags are sometimes close, but spend far too much time fellating Apple and the latest Jobsian edict, be it soft or hardware.



I know we didn't pull it off, but we did sort of have the Apple store six years ago at Amiga.  (this was when my job at Amiga was testing apps that people sent in, among other things.)

You submitted your apps, Amiga pimped 'em, both parties made money.  OK, Amiga might not be at the 'made money' part of it yet, but I think it's safe to say that Amiga did, actually, think of it first.

Credit where it's due.
 

Offline HopperJF

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2008, 09:26:51 PM »
Issues of CU from around 94 onwards look like they could still be sold today (if you ignore the floppies), the layout has aged very well and puts many current mags to shame
Religion is for people who believe in hell.
Spirituality is for people who have been there.
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2008, 12:46:15 AM »
Even at the tail-end of their lives CU and AF seemed to have way more actual content than any of the Mac magazines do now.  MacWorld seems to be 80% adverts.  

I don't know if it is still that case, but a few years back Mac Format and MacWorld both had circulation figures less than CU had when it was closed down.  That to me is amazing considering the state of the Amiga market at the time.
 

Offline zylesea

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Re: What was the best thing that ever happened to the Amiga? Any era.
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2008, 01:05:35 AM »
Personal POV: MorphOS. The most powerful and advanced Amiga system.

Rather objective POV: The best thing ever was the A500. It is just 'the Amiga' - back in the days it was pretty cheap, innovative, powerful and fun.